Anthony Albanese is Australia's Prime Minister. And he joins us here on Drive. Prime Minister, welcome.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Richard. Good to be with you.
GLOVER: I want to talk to you, obviously, about the CPI figures, the inflation figures. They're undoubtedly very good. But can I first ask you about all these reports that you are considering changes to negative gearing? It seems every headline, every newspaper in the country has got a headline saying negative gearing is back on the table. Is it?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it's not our policy. I note that all of these reports don't have any names attached to it and that apparently Treasury is doing some work on policy. Well, that's what Treasury do. We respect the public service. Lots of people look at lots of things, but it's certainly not our policy. Our policy is our $32 billion Homes for Australia plan.
GLOVER: Okay, but here's, sorry, Prime Minister, to interrupt. Here's the sharp question. Have you asked Treasury to examine possible changes to both negative gearing and the capital gains discount?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I certainly haven't.
GLOVER: Has your Treasurer, though?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the Department, like all departments, look at various things at various times. So, is this Government policy or Government request to examine potential policy announcement? No, it's not.
GLOVER: But it's a fair question to ask you whether you or your Treasurer has requested this study.
PRIME MINISTER: Sure, and I've answered that.
GLOVER: You've answered it for yourself, but not for the Treasurer?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm not the Treasurer.
GLOVER: But you must have said, 'Hey, Jim, did you ask them to do this?'
PRIME MINISTER: No. No, not at all.
GLOVER: Sorry. You don't know whether your Treasurer has asked them to do this work or not?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don't know because I'm not the Treasurer. And the Treasurer is on his way to China as we speak. But what we have done is to concentrate on our Homes for Australia plan. What I can say is, at no level of the Government has there been a debate about anything other than getting our Homes for Australia plan through. And those meetings include, obviously, in our Cabinet, and those processes include, obviously, the Treasurer and other Ministers as well. What we're concentrating on is delivering the Homes for Australia plan, some of which is caught up in the Senate, because we know that the key to housing policy is lifting supply, and that has been our concentration.
GLOVER: Would you be troubled by the news that the Treasurer had asked Treasury to make this study? Because it has created -
PRIME MINISTER: I wouldn't be troubled by any of this speculation, which, frankly, is not the main game. The idea that people look at things in departments is something that I would expect a good public service to do at regular intervals on their own accord, to come up with policy ideas. We want a respected, good public service that come up with ideas. And it's as simple as -
GLOVER: I suppose everyone's question, I think it's a fair question, is are they doing this on their own accord or have they been asked to do it by the Government?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, and I've answered that very clearly. It's not what our policy approach is. Our policy approach is very clear and is out there. And some of which, in terms of our Build to Rent scheme and our Help to Buy scheme. So, two schemes, one aimed at getting people in a home ownership, the second aimed at increasing private rentals and the building of supply. Both of those measures are what are stuck in the Senate. And that is our only concentration. That is what we have only been focused on.
GLOVER: Okay, but you sound as if you are unsure whether the Treasurer has made this request of Treasury or not.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, if you ask me speculative questions, I'm unsure of what you had for breakfast this morning. You know, I mean, there are no names attached. There are no politicians attached. There's no suggestion in the report, which is there, the speculative report. There's no suggestion even that there's comments from any Minister or any Member of Parliament, let alone the Treasurer or the Prime Minister.
GLOVER: But because it is such a difficult subject, I mean, some people say it lost you the last election because it's such a difficult subject.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we won the last election, Richard.
GLOVER: Sorry. The one before. Sorry, Mr Shorten's election. And given that people might say, given all the headlines today, you would at least phone up the Treasurer and say, is it true that you asked him to do this?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he's on a plane. And what we've been concentrating on is the real issue, which is the inflation coming down today. And I know, I know what the Treasurer has been involved in, and the Treasurer has been involved in trying to get our Homes for Australia plan through the Parliament, as has the entire Government.
GLOVER: Will you ask him the question once he lands?
PRIME MINISTER: You could ask him yourself.
GLOVER: Fair enough. Let's talk about the inflation figures. Again, this is something to be celebrated. But there are critics. People say that a lot of the low inflation today is down to the fact that you've had this electricity subsidy delivered directly to households. It's really, well for critics, they say it's an artificial reduction in inflation, that it will bounce back once the subsidy ends.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, every single figure is down today. Every single figure, whether it be the monthly inflation figure, down from 3.5 to 2.7 per cent, trimmed mean inflation down from 3.8 to 3.4, excluding volatile issues, 3.7 down three, or non-tradeable from 4.5 to 3.8. So, every single indication is that inflation is moderating substantially. It's down to half of what we inherited and a third of where it peaked. Now it's returned to the RBA's target ban for the first time since October 2021. And you'll always find some 'half glass empty' people out there trying to be critical. But we make no apologies either for the fact that our cost of living relief is designed to put that downward pressure on inflation. And that is what it clearly has been one of the factors that has had the impact that we sought it to do, helping households while putting that downward pressure on inflation.
GLOVER: It is. But nonetheless, that will come to an end. The RBA expects inflation to jump back to 3.7 per cent late next year when your rebate and a few similar rebates from the states end.
PRIME MINISTER: They haven't said that, with respect, today. They have not said that. What we've seen today is a monthly inflation figure that is far below what all of the so-called experts, the economists out there, if you can find me anything in this morning's paper saying that inflation would drop from 3.5 to 2.7 when it was announced today, I'd be very surprised.
GLOVER: It's certainly surprised, on the upside, for most people. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is here. Whilst we're talking about inflation, you must have been disturbed, as everybody was, I think, by the allegations against the two big supermarkets. How much do you think they're responsible for the fact that we've had such a battle with sticky inflation in this country?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is red hot. When people go to the supermarket, particularly when there's cost of living pressures, they expect, when they see the special sign, they expect it to be cheaper, they expect it to be honest. And they trust those signs in many cases to mean that there's a bargain. They're looking for value. They're looking for a bargain. And what they've got is a breach of trust with their customers with the allegations that the ACCC has brought before the court. The extraordinary examples of prices being raised by $1.50 and then reduced by $0.50, pretending that that's a reduction when it's actually a dollar more expensive. And this is, between Woolworths and Coles, 500 examples of this behaviour, which is why the ACCC have taken the strong action that they have in taking this legal action.
GLOVER: I noticed one commentator pointed out, if you look at the list of products, it's real battler products for the most part. It's things like Weetbix that they've done it with. So, it's not the high-end goods they've done it with, it's the goods that ordinary Australians use to survive.
PRIME MINISTER: That's why it's so appalling. It is exactly that. It's everyday products that Australians need for their brekkie or their lunch or their snacks. It is goods that are produced en masse and therefore that they receive, with markups, a substantial benefit from the sales because of the numbers that we're talking about. That is why it's so extraordinary. And on the same day that the ACCC announced this legal action, we released our exposure draft for making the food and grocery code mandatory. As you'd be aware previously, it's been voluntary. And the truth is that hasn't delivered. And that's why my Government had a review by Dr Craig Emerson. He recommended that it be mandated. And we've put out the exposure draft of what that mandated code would be. And we've also put out the draft of changes to legislation which would really tighten up the provisions to make sure that consumers are looked after.
GLOVER: Nonetheless, both the Nationals and the Greens in bed together maybe unlikely bedmates, but they both say that you should go further with divestiture laws, that you should at least threaten the big supermarkets, that they'll be forced to divest in order to get more competition.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, don't make a threat if you're not going to carry it out. And the truth is that neither the Greens or the Nationals or the Libs that have gone along with this as well, with this populist policy, can work out how it would work, what impact it would actually have. And when you ask them in private as well, they do exactly what you just suggested. There they go, 'Oh, well, you just threaten. Yeah, sure, it wouldn't work in practice'. Well, if something doesn't work in practice and you're the alternative government, you need to do better on policy than that.
GLOVER: What about so-called land banking where, you know, maybe they've already got two stores in Tamworth each, but you know that they've bought another site and they've really bought it. They don't intend to build a shop on it. They're just trying to stop Aldi coming to town. Couldn't you force them to divest that site?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, occasionally you'll have these examples raised. You're telling me that an entire town, there'd only be one site where a supermarket could possibly be built? The truth is that we have a market-based economy in Australia. We want to continue that market-based economy, but we want proper regulation to hold the supermarkets to account. And that's what a mandated code would do. And that's why we're introducing it, that's why we're changing legislation, making a difference. And I note that the Nats, prior to a couple of years ago, were in government for ten years. They did none of this. A bit like they did nothing on nuclear power and a whole range of things that they now think is a good idea for populist reasons. And they just had a voluntary code of conduct. So, give me a break. Having done nothing for a decade, they now want some command economy control mechanism where you force sales of grocery supermarkets. And the chances are, if Coles in Marrickville North, to give a suburb that doesn't exist, is sold, chances are Coles or another of the big giants would buy it.
GLOVER: Look, my son lives in Marrickville North, and I think it's a wedding title.
PRIME MINISTER: It's not a real suburb.
GLOVER: Anthony Albanese is here, the Prime Minister. Just before I lose you, can I ask you about the trip to the Quad? In particular, you were the first foreign leader, I understand, to visit Joe Biden's house. What was that like? And what was it like meeting the President?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, it was terrific. It was the 11th occasion in which we've had meetings. And for him to welcome me into his house was, I think, a great honour. I regard him as a friend. I think he's been an extraordinary figure in history and has provided great leadership and has, of course, got greater engagement in the Indo-Pacific under his presidency. But to be invited into his home was a great honour. And we met there along with Secretary Blinken, the Secretary of State, and Jake Sullivan, his national security adviser. And it was just one of those great experiences that I get to have by having the honour of being Australia's Prime Minister.
GLOVER: Is he still sharp?
PRIME MINISTER: He's really sharp. He led the Quad meeting very well. And we also had bilaterals with Prime Minister Kishida of Japan and Prime Minister Modi of India. And we had dinner as well on the Saturday evening at the school that Joe Biden went to, which was also, I think, much more interesting than going to your usual major hotel, which is where these big gatherings tend to happen, or even worse, a convention centre.
GLOVER: I've got a minute left.
PRIME MINISTER: Very pleasant.
GLOVER: I've got a minute left with you, Prime Minister. Storm v Roosters on Friday, Panthers v Sharks on Saturday. Who's going to make the NRL Grand Final?
PRIME MINISTER: I think it's Melbourne and Penrith have been the best two teams all year. And I think they're likely to play off again next Sunday. But I'm still in mourning over my Rabbitohs, who, you know, 16th was not what we were anticipating at the beginning of the year. But at this stage, of course, the great thing about being a Souths supporter is there's always next year. And I'm confident that they will win the comp next year, as I always am before the season starts.
GLOVER: You wait till those Papua New Guineans get on the field. They'll show your Bunnies a thing or two. Prime Minister, thank you very much for talking to me again.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Richard.
