: We're joined by the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese. Good morning.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: G'day Raf. And indeed, inflation did go up right around the whole world. In some countries it hit double digits and so that's placed in pressures. So, Australians, like other global citizens have had a tough period. We had COVID then we had global inflation. But yesterday, I think, was welcome news for millions of Australians. It certainly is the rate relief that Australians needed and that they deserve and that they've earned.
EPSTEIN: Can I ask you about the rate cut itself? What do you think people will remember? There have been 13 rate rises. Do you think they'll remember that or do you think they'll remember one rate cut?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course, rates began to rise when we came to office. Like, inflation had a 6 in front of it when we came to office and was on the way up. It now is at 2.4 per cent and is on the way down. At the same time wages were in decline when we came to office. Now we've had four consecutive quarters of real wage growth. We've had tax cuts for every single taxpayer. And yes, of course, interest rates have started to come down too.
EPSTEIN. So, nothing wrong with you saying what you've achieved but what do you think people are going to remember? Because you can sort of list as many things as you have done as many times as you like. I want to know from you, what do you think people will notice the 13 rate rises or the one rate cut?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm not the commentator. That's your job, Raf. My job, my job, is to do my best and the Government's best to look after Australians interests. And what we've done is get inflation down as I said, from having a six in front to having a two in front. We've done that while we've provided cost of living relief, we've made difficult decisions like giving a tax cut to every single taxpayer, not just some. And we've done all that while more than a million jobs have been created -
EPSTEIN: Can I zero in on the tax cut, Prime Minister?
EPSTEIN: Can I zero in on that tax cut? There was a - the Per Capita think tank, that is not antagonistic towards your Government, they did a survey of people about that specific tax cut. I'm not sure - that survey did not show that people noticed it. I mean I know you don't want to be a commentator but I mean, like, would you notice an extra 100 bucks in your bank account each month? What do you think is actually going to be in people's minds when they walk into a ballot box?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, again, Raf, I'm not the commentator. My job is to get inflation down. We have been successful, more to do, but it's heading in the right direction. When you have a headline rate of 2.4 per cent, it's around about a third of where it peaked, then that makes a difference. Giving a tax cut to every taxpayer, yeah - because it's not a lump sum, that was the great benefit of how it was designed. $107 billion of additional money in people's pockets over the four years of the forward budget estimates. But because it wasn't a cash splash, it didn't have an inflationary impact, that was the point -
EPSTEIN: And I appreciate that point, but -
PRIME MINISTER: We had to design measures that didn't say, 'oh, well, here's, you know, $2,000 instantly for you,' because had we done that, that would have had a counterproductive impact on inflation.
EPSTEIN: I appreciate that, but you don't need to be a commentator to tell me whether or not you'd notice 100 bucks in your bank account each month.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, of course people notice money in their bank account and they also notice that their wages are increasing and they were falling under the former Government.
EPSTEIN: Jane Hume says the opposite. She says that wages are worse under your Government, on average, than under the Coalition, and that inflation's worse under your Government than under her Government.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's just not true. Jane Hume just talks Australia down. There is no issue too big for the Coalition to not show how small they are. You know, they talk Australia down. Angus Taylor yesterday looked like someone had run over his cat in the driveway. He was so disappointed with the Reserve Bank decision.
EPSTEIN: But you're allowed to criticise the Government for public spending. That's like - that's legitimate political opposition, isn't it? To say we think Labor spends too much and that sort of contributed to inflation. That's like - that's part of politics, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER: This mob, when they were in government, they handed down a Budget in March 2022, and, of course, the election was in May, so that was the direction they wanted Australia to go in. And they had a $78 billion Liberal deficit that we turned into a $22 billion Labor surplus and then followed it up with another surplus. Unlike what they did, we put revenue upgrades to the bottom line. We have saved around $200 billion in debt as a result of hard work that we've done, going through line by line making sure that taxpayers get value for money. The previous mob were profligate in the way that they did a budget, as I said, $78 billion deficit. They promised a surplus in their first year when they were elected in 2013 and every year thereafter. And they didn't deliver one. Not one. Didn't come close. And, you know, they come on to radio programs, people like Jane Hume, and pretend that none of those facts are real. Well, it is a fact that inflation had a six in front, and now it has a two in front. It is a fact that 1.1 million jobs have been created since we were in government. It is a fact that they wanted tax cuts for you and me, but not for most of your listeners.
EPSTEIN: Isn't it also a fact that my grocery bill's not really going to go down, is it? No matter who wins the election, my grocery bill's not going to go down and my kids are still going to have trouble buying a house. Like, those things are not going to change, no matter who wins.
PRIME MINISTER: Of course, what you cannot do is have an election on May 17 and things change on May 18. We had - when it comes to housing, for example, they didn't even bother to have a Housing Minister for most of the time that they were in government. We're addressing these issues. It is correct to say that you can't solve these issues overnight, just as inflation -
EPSTEIN: But you're unlikely to solve them in three years, aren't you? Like, isn't it just a fact that the grocery prices aren't going to fall? Inflation's lower, so the prices aren't rising as quickly. I think a lot of people understand that. Isn't it also true, though, PM, no matter who wins - let's say the election is in May, I'm not asking you about the date - no matter who wins this election, three years' time from now, my grocery bill's not going to be substantially lower. My kid's still going to have trouble buying a house. Do you agree with that or not?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I tell you what, people - if you compare three years in one term. If it wasn't for this Government, everyone wouldn't have got a tax cut. People wouldn't have got energy price relief. 600,000 Australians wouldn't have got Free TAFE, we wouldn't have had Cheaper Child Care, which have benefited families by an average of $2,700. We wouldn't have had Medicare Urgent Care Clinics - 87 of them - opened up right around Melbourne, right around the country, to give people the free health that they need when they need it. You wouldn't have had a tripling of the bulk billing incentive and a turnaround in that. You wouldn't have had any of these measures because Peter Dutton opposed every single one of them. Every single one of them. And their $78 billion deficit, which is their projections, not something we've made up. What they announced in the Budget in March 2022, that direction would have occurred and there wouldn't have been any of that cost of living relief. And if Peter Dutton is elected, he has got three promises only; $600 billion for a nuclear industry sometime in the 2040s. Cuts that he won't tell you what they are, but we know what they were last time - they were zeroed in on health and education. And of course, free lunch that all your listeners will pay for, some people to go out to lunch for $20,000 with clients or potential clients. That's anyone, Raf.
EPSTEIN: I didn't get a chance -
PRIME MINISTER: It is a lazy Opposition.
EPSTEIN: I didn't get a chance to ask Jane Hume about that. PM, if I can switch focus. You spoke to ABC TV yesterday afternoon, the news channel. You spoke to two drive programs in Perth, one in Brisbane, one in Sydney. So, I think that's five interviews all up. Something did not get a mention. You weren't asked about it, and you did not mention, an assault on two Muslim women last week in Melbourne. Do you think if two Jewish women had ended up in hospital last week, do you think those interviews would have been different?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a question for the ABC, and you might want to talk to your -
EPSTEIN: I know I'm pushing you to be a commentator again, but you're in the middle of this political storm.
PRIME MINISTER: I don't ask the questions, as you know, Raf.
EPSTEIN: Well, you were asked a question on 2GB in Sydney that related to this about political stickers in hospitals. But I'm asking that question, PM, because there's a tonne of people yesterday who rang the radio station who believed it would be different, that if Jewish women had been attacked last week in Melbourne and not Muslim women, the media's reaction and the political reaction would have been different. Do you think it would have been different, the political reaction?
PRIME MINISTER: You're asking me about the media reaction. If I'm asked - if you're actually asking me now rather than asking me about what the ABC asked me yesterday, or didn't ask - I can assure you, Raf, that I find this outrageous, that people were assaulted for who they are. And attacks on the basis of people's race or their religious belief are un-Australian. They are outrageous and the perpetrators should be held fully to account and face the full force of the law.
EPSTEIN: Do you think our community looks at Islamophobia differently to the way our community looks at antisemitism?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, all I can do is talk about the way that I look at it. And I regard any attacks on the basis of race or people's faith as being an outrage. And I think that, overwhelmingly, Australians are harmonious. What we have in this country is the great privilege of living in a continent where, overwhelmingly, Australians respect each other and our diversity is a source of strength, is my very strong view.
EPSTEIN: Just to end on this PM. The tobacco wars in Melbourne. We learned yesterday that an innocent woman died in a house fire in Truganina. Police say the tobacco wars arsonists just got the wrong address and she died. This doesn't - you might not think it has anything to do with the Federal Government, but Treasury - the Federal Treasury keeps on lowering how much revenue it expects from tobacco tax. And it's not because people are giving up, it's because people are buying cheaper illegal cigarettes. I'm not blaming you for crime, but don't you think both political parties have helped to create a black market in tobacco because both stripes of government federally keep on putting up tobacco tax?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, tobacco taxes are of course a health measure, overwhelmingly. And all of the evidence is that that is the case. I'll tell you what we have done is take decisive actions to end the trade of illicit tobacco. We've given an additional almost $200 million to Australian Border Force. They are working closely with states and territories to increase compliance, cracking down on this illegal illicit black market. And certainly, what we're seeing is record levels of illicit tobacco are being targeted and seized at our borders -
EPSTEIN: You don't think you've contributed to the black market?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what's the logic of where you're headed there, Raf? Are you opposed to taxes on -
EPSTEIN: Well, only because the taxes makes them so - I'm not opposed, I'm just trying to - everyone who works in this space says we've created a black market because tobacco, legitimate tobacco, is so expensive. I've only got 30 seconds left. But do you think those high taxes have fuelled the demand for the cheap illegal ones?
PRIME MINISTER: What I won't be doing is providing excuses for criminals. That's what I won't be doing. And I don't think we should go down that road. There are measures that have been put in place for a long period of time to reduce the impact, the health impact, of smoking. And the difference between when you and I were young men and now is obvious. There is far less smoking. That's a good thing. It's a good thing for individuals. I'll tell you what it's good for too, it's good for the health budget, because that's less people dying of cancer for something that has an enormous impact on people's health.
EPSTEIN: I need to leave it there. Thanks for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Raf.
