The war in Gaza represents "the biggest stress test" the UN has faced in its work to forge greater peace and a two-State solution between Israelis and Palestinians, according to the senior envoy who has been at the forefront of these efforts since 2021.
More than a year into the conflict, "we are at the point where diplomacy has failed in the situation where the geopolitics is superbly difficult," Tor Wennesland said in an exclusive interview with UN News earlier this week.
Stepping down
The veteran Norwegian diplomat is stepping down from his role as UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, after spending decades trying to improve relations across the region.
He was Adviser in Norway's foreign ministry during the process that led to the 1995 Oslo II Agreement on the West Bank and Gaza Strip and served as the country's Representative to the Palestinian Authority as well as Ambassador to Egypt and Libya.
"I have abused the patience of my family for more than 15 to 20 years on this file, and at a certain point in time you have to take a decision on how long you're going to continue," he said.
Hope remains high
Mr. Wennesland continues to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, the release of all hostages, and humanitarians access to people on the ground.
He believes that peace is still possible between Israelis and Palestinians, and the two-State solution, in line with UN Security Council resolutions, remains viable despite attempts to undermine it.
He also expressed hope of progress towards ending the war, saying "you need to come to a time where you can properly sit down and think clearly on how you get out of it. That's where we are now approaching."
He began the interview by describing developments since the onset of the war in Gaza following the 7 October 2023 Hamas-led attacks on Israel.
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Tor Wennesland: All we had done before under different circumstances - and I've been working on this file since Oslo II was signed - we had difficulties, we had bad times, but this time it was like an avalanche and it was hitting everybody by surprise.
But it was hitting us at a time where there were no clear dynamics around this issue politically at all. So, we were very quickly into territory where the events of an armed conflict immediately escalated and actually in the West Bank also continuing a trend that had lasted for a while.
So, I think honestly everybody who was involved in this was scrambling. I mean, everybody. And nobody had really any kind of clear sense on how to deal with it, whether that was the parties themselves, the regional actors, and also the UN.
I mean, this was the biggest stress test the UN has been exposed to on this file ever, so we needed to patch up our capacity and see what to do and see how to move forward.
But I can assure you, given what has been mobilized to stop this war over the last 14 months without any degree of success because we are still in the middle of it, I mean we are at the point where diplomacy has failed in the situation where the geopolitics is superbly difficult. And it has been reflected also in the work of the Council, and it definitely put big restraints on the UN and the ability of the UN to conduct its work on the ground.
UN News: After all of this, do you think that the peace process, including the two-State solution, can still be revived? And is this still the basis for your discussions and talks?
Tor Wennesland: Absolutely. And there is nobody - and I have had a huge outreach in my job here now - there is nobody who is defining it differently except from those who would like to kill it, and we have that happening as we speak.
And my biggest concern is that we are losing the parameters we have been operating under here since back to '67 and '73 with the formative resolutions of the Council. But now we have an outright drive to dismantle the institutional structures of what was to become a Palestinian State, and it's happening with a speed and a drive that I haven't seen before.
And the problem with that is that we would have it in our face, if the forces that would like to undermine a two-State solution would be succeeding. Obviously for the UN system, they are struggling with the systemic impacts of that for agencies and the UN as a whole; extremely difficult.
But we should not forget that it is the undermining of the Palestinian capacity to - with support from the international community - strengthen their own ability to run Palestine.
That is really under pressure, and even more so than the UN system, and the ones that are suffering are the Palestinian population. And I can assure you Gaza is absolutely a nightmare and it's in a way terrifying to go in there and see the exposure of the population to what's going on. But there is a fear factor [in] the West Bank as well because they see that the structures are crumbling.
UN News: You're saying there are these forces, and it seemed like influential forces, that will undermine or are undermining the Palestinian State and the two-State solution. But what can be done right now from the UN and from the international community to fix this situation, the bleak situation?
Tor Wennesland: Well, there is no quick fix on this but there has to be a resolve and a drive to do it. I have a very close dialogue with the regional countries. They are the ones who have most to gain from a regional stability situation, in addition to both ordinary Israelis and Palestinians.
We should not forget that Israel is crumbling as well as a result of this. The Israeli economy is going down and there are tensions in Israel that I have never seen in all my period of work here that are now playing out in front of our eyes.
The whole system, both in Palestine and in Israel, is out of balance and to reset it will take a lot of effort.
We need to stick to two things. First of all, we need to stick to normal international principles and international law and not give that away for a second because then we give it away in a way that can be used negatively in other places.
Secondly, we have to do whatever the UN can to provide humanitarian support to ordinary people on the ground, and we are doing that under massive constraints and with UN staff exposing themselves in a way that we have huge losses of staff as a result of this. And then we need to re-mobilize all we can to address the politics of a way forward.
UN News: You mentioned to the Security Council that the current events will have impacts for generations and will shape the region in ways we cannot fully comprehend. What are the consequences you're most worried and concerned about?
Tor Wennesland: The Palestinian population is a very young population. If we cannot offer any way out, there are others that will start recruiting. And we should not forget that a crisis like this will have negative effects across the board in the neighbouring countries and in the region in particular, but also other places because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is something that is reflecting globally in the streets of the capitals of Europe, in US, in Australia, and definitely in the region.
We are playing a poker game with a young generation that without any perspective on solutions, can find other ways to get an outlet for their frustration. That is very dangerous, and it's dangerous for all. And it's not only here. It is dangerous.
We are playing a poker game with a young generation that without any perspective on solutions, can find other ways to get an outlet for their frustration. That is very dangerous, and it's dangerous for all. And it's not only here. It is dangerous.
UN News: I'll quote something else you mentioned to the Security Council. You mentioned that if the parties cannot find a way out, the international community must define the path forward. How do you see this right now with new developments around the world, with maybe new governments, new administrations, changes?
Tor Wennesland: Well, the world is like it is. I mean, the point of departure is that we need to take the realities as given because this is the only way to do proper realpolitik.
But what I said is that some of the really key principles that have been guiding the work on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Israeli-Arab conflict are now under pressure. And the only place where it is relevant to reset a way forward for the international community is based on decisions taken in the Security Council.
You can have seminars and conferences all over the place, but then we need to anchor that. We need to anchor any path forward by decisions in the Council. And I think we don't have any time to lose on that.
UN News: But what will encourage the countries with influence to push because the Security Council is divided, as we all know, for more than a year now?
Tor Wennesland: Well, I mean, the Security Council is not divided on the issue of a two-State solution. It hasn't been for even one of the more than 50 to 60 meetings I have had in this Council for the period I've been here - so that principle is standing.
There is a broad consensus internationally around these principles, but they are undermined, and we need to look at that reality very straight on. When the Council had its last political decision eight years back just before Christmas on (resolution) 2334 , the Gaza situation was very different.
The change in the Gaza situation has never been properly addressed by the Security Council in order to redress the territorial issue, the border issues, the occupation issues - the Council has never had a position on that. And it's not very difficult to apply the same principles that we have been upholding both in the UN Security Council resolution or in the agreements that has been formulated after the Oslo Accords.
They need to be reapplied and there needs to be a Palestinian governance structure in the middle if we're going to get to a Palestinian State. And there is a consensus on that as well internationally, so we have to build on what we have, and that's a common understanding on how we apply the principles. But as long as it's not properly formulated, we don't have the framework we need in the aftermath of the conflict that is still unresolved.
UN News: Supporters of both sides - Israelis and Palestinians - some of them, they say that the UN is not doing enough, especially on the political side. What would you like to clarify to them about the work of the UN and your own role and work?
Tor Wennesland: Well, as I said in the beginning, the scale of this conflict has never been seen before and definitely not seen after the State of Israel was established.
We have never had a conflict that has lasted for 14 months. We have never had any conflict of this intensity and with the losses and destruction we are seeing now.
For sure we have been working to avoid the escalation we are now seeing in Lebanon and other places in the region, so we have never seen this before in the region or on the ground.
So, in the first week of this conflict, that was my focus. Then it's a question of finding a way out of it and forward at the same time as you have very dynamic and intensive warfare ongoing.
So, you need to come to a time where you can properly sit down and think clearly on how you get out of it. That's where we are now approaching. We couldn't get that done in November, where we were ready to be a part of the hostage evacuation.
We couldn't do it as the war was scaling back and forth, and people were driven around the corners in Gaza. But we are coming to that phase now. So, we always need to get out of a conflict by the realm of diplomacy and decision-making that has a bearing that takes us forward.
And, obviously, we need a ceasefire, we need the hostages out, we need a lasting ceasefire, and we need safety. I mean, we need safety for the Palestinians and for the Israelis.
I have been in Gaza when we had a temporary lull because of a vaccination campaign conducted by the UN inside and it gave a short breathing space for people massively traumatized.
We don't have that ceasefire in place, and we need to then canvass the international community and the regional partners to cement that framework and effort.
UN News: Am I right to understand that you're giving the impression that there is some progress right now? We're moving into something?
Tor Wennesland: I'm not going to go into details on what is going on and what is not going on. I would have liked to see that we would have had the chance to address some core principles and some ways forward way earlier.
That was not possible. But when you work as a diplomat with these things, you have to be patient enough to wait for the time to come and we are getting into that time, but we have to use it smart and fast because otherwise we risk that this is slipping between our fingers.
UN News: Before leaving your position, what is the one advice you can give Israelis and Palestinians for one thing they should do to ensure their own safety, security and peace?
Tor Wennesland: We have everybody on the ground being massively traumatized, and it will take years, if ever, to sort that out by those who have been exposed. And here is why I'm saying that the international community needs to take a lead, because we are not the ones that have been exposed to the traumas. We need to take a step to the side, understand what's going on, and try to kind of formulate something the parties can somehow accept. And the compromises will always be grey.
