Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Assistant Minister for the Public Service, Assistant Minister to the Attorney-General
OLIVER PETERSON, HOST: Patrick Gorman, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, representing the Labor Party. Good afternoon.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Oly. Good afternoon to your listeners.
PETERSON: And representing -
GORMAN: Good afternoon to those smart enough to listen as well.
PETERSON: That is very kind of you, sorry, Patrick. And good afternoon to the Liberals' Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, that is Michaelia Cash. Good afternoon.
SENATOR MICHAELIA CASH, LIBERAL PARTY LEADER IN THE SENATE: Good afternoon, Oly. Good afternoon Patrick, and good afternoon 6PR listeners.
PETERSON: I want to ask you both, what's the Reserve Bank of Australia going to do tomorrow? Patrick, start with you. Are we getting interest rate cuts?
GORMAN: Well, let's start with what the Reserve Bank of Australia does. They have a very long, for most of us somewhat boring, two day long meeting. Now none of us, unless you've got a few listeners who are members of the RBA board, know what happens in those meetings, but we'll find out about 11:30 tomorrow morning WA time, what's going to happen with interest rates. I know a lot of people are hanging on that decision. It is not for me to tell them how to do their job, but I'm proud of the work that we've done as the Albanese Government in getting that fight on inflation, getting it under control. When we came to office, inflation was at 6.1% and that's why interest rates were going up. Now we've got inflation down to 2.4%. Getting inflation down from 6.1 to 2.4 has already helped household budgets. It means that the things that we're buying every day aren't going up in price as much. That helps people now that's the bit that we've done our bit on. As for the Reserve Bank, I know many of your listeners want me to say a particular thing, I'm going to respect their independence, and we'll leave them to make their decision. But I know a lot of people are waiting on it.
PETERSON: All right. Michaelia Cash, would you encourage Michelle Bullock to cut rates?
CASH: Well, I really hope, for the sake of Australians, who've had, you know, 12 interest rate increases under Mr. Albanese, that there is a cut. But they'll need more than that. They actually need relief. They need relief from their energy bills that's arisen by $1,000 they need relief from the collapse in living standards. You know, the average family under the 12 interest rate hike, that's $50,000 of interest that they have had to pay since Labor came to government. I mean, over the last two years, we've had the biggest fall in household disposable income living standards, you know, in the developed world. So, you know, I actually really, really do hope that there is a cut. It is a decision of the Reserve Bank, but ultimately, the cut only is a drop in the ocean. When you look at everything else that Australians have had to pay because prices, including, you know, food, they've gone up, not down under the Albanese Labor Government.
PETERSON: Patrick, today Newspoll still puts the Coalition ahead of Labor and in terms of primary votes, it's 38/31. You're worried about this and you're thinking that we've got a state election, first and foremost, here in WA, that people might be confusing State and Federal issues? There could be even a protest vote against your government here in WA?
GORMAN: Look, I think firstly, voters know the difference. They know that when they walk in on the 8th of March, they know what decision they're making, and they'll know what decision they're making when they go to the polls for the Federal election. And I also think that people are starting to take a closer look at whether or not Peter Dutton, Michaelia and their team have any actual serious plans to take Australia forward. And the reality is that the closer you look, the less you see. So I recognise that those polls will come. It is going to be a competitive election. I like a competitive election. I like to fight for every vote. That is what I did in 2022 and we've got a pretty good result here in the West. And I think we put some pretty good members of parliament in to represent Western Australia, which is why we've got good outcomes for WA out of this Federal Labor Government.
PETERSON: Michaelia, does Peter Dutton help Libby Mettam's chances in Western Australia?
CASH: Look, I'm concentrating on the Federal election. I'm a Federal Member of Parliament. And in fact, on Friday, it was 1000 days since the election of the Albanese Government. And it's interesting, when you're out and about, you know, talking to people, whether it's the State team or the Federal team, it's the same response. When we speak about 1000 long days of Prime Minister Albanese's reign, people are now saying, 'look, it just feels like 10,000.' You know, they consider the impact that has been so negative on them, of so many of the policy decisions that have been made, with so many people struggling to pay their mortgages. As I said, the interest rates increasing twelve times. Prices have gone up by around 11%. But ultimately the election will be when the election is. But the one thing I do notice, solely when I'm out and about, is people do say they've seen a change. You know? They say that Australians, because of the decisions that have been made, have been held back. Aspiration has given way to anxiety. Optimism has turned to pessimism. National confidence has changed to dispiritedness, and that's not the Australia they want to live in.
PETERSON: Is that the same feedback you're getting, Patrick?
GORMAN: No, I think Michaelia has done the great state of Western Australia a real disservice by talking down the attitude of our people. People understand that we are like a big trading nation. That we have had huge challenges for household budgets because of the cost of living and inflation pressures in the global economy. But people also know that where there's been practical things that we can do, we've delivered. If you get your Synergy bill here in Western Australia, you'll see that $700 of Synergy bill credits. Mr. Dutton was in Brisbane today saying that he'll axe all of those credits. When you look at the opportunities we've had to do positive things, from the earliest years, where we put in legislation to get three days of guaranteed early childhood education. That was in the parliament last week, the Liberals and Nationals voted against it. Just like they voted against the production tax credits, which are trying to make sure there's more support for WA industry. So, look, I'll always, by my nature, be an optimist. I won't look to talk down the West Australian or the Australian economy. I will look for the ways to grow it for the future. And I think again, that kind of, that negative mindset, always looking for the problem, never putting forward a solution is one of the things I really think is going to hold back the Liberals. I think it's holding them back in the state show. They don't really have a big vision for the state. I think it's really holding Peter Dutton back, he doesn't have a vision for the country.
PETERSON: Is that a fair criticism, Senator Cash? Has Peter Dutton got a vision for the country?
CASH: Absolutely. And we have outlined a vision for the Australian public, and in fact, we've put forward a plan. There'll be more detail of that as we go towards the election. But any one of your listeners, they can go to our plan and read about how we'll get Australia back on track. They just have to go to the Liberal Party website. One of the things that when people are out and about, they say to me is, you know, Australians are truly remarkable. This is the greatest country in the world. We have people who are compassionate, who are stoic, who are fair. We have people who passionately love their country. But they say to you, in the last three years, they've seen a change. You know, one of the most incompetent governments in our history, led by one of our weakest ever prime ministers, has made bad decisions. Causing Australians to be worse off, our country to be less safe and our nation to be divided. And consequently, instead of getting ahead, Australians have been held back. I mean, no one is believing Anthony Albanese when he says you'll be better off under Labor. In fact, as people say, you can fool me once, but not twice. And as we talked about last time, you know, the questions that Australians need to ask themselves is, 'do I feel better off today than I did when Mr. Albanese was first elected? Do I feel safer today than I did when Mr. Albanese was first elected, and is Australia a more cohesive society today than it was when Mr. Albanese was first elected?' And unfortunately, you know, for Patrick, the resounding answer to those questions is no.
PETERSON: 133 882, it's Question Time. Michaelia Cash, Patrick Gorman with me today. The Sydney Morning Herald and WA Today reporting that Barnaby Joyce was flirting with One Nation. Is he out on the outer, Senator Cash?
CASH: Barnaby is a great patriot, in particular for rural and regional Australia. I mean, you know, when he was our Deputy Prime Minister, you know, he made sure rural and regional Australia were front and center each and every day. I've worked very close with Barnaby. I know how passionate he is. When I look at the decisions of the Albanese Government in particular, as they pertain to rural and regional Australia -
GORMAN: But is he about to be dumped? Is he about to be sacked? That is what this story says. Is that true?
CASH: Well that's what the media are saying. I look at Barnaby and his record, as I said, if I look at the decisions of the Albanese Government closing down the live sheep export trade in Western Australia. That is something that directly adversely impacts rural and regional Western Australians in particular. The assault on the mining industry, the Nature Positive laws that Madeleine King, that are so many of the Labor backbenchers, Matt Keogh, he is a frontbencher, Josh Wilson, they refuse to rule out. We know they're coming back under the next government. You know, I'm an advocate for rural and regional Western Australia. And good on Barnaby Joyce for being a loud advocate for the benefits and you know, the prosperity of our farmers and those people in rural and regional Australia.
PETERSON: Sounds like it could be it, though, Senator Cash. It sounds like David Littleproud doesn't have plans for him in the frontbench going forward.
CASH: Well, guess what? I'm focused on Australians. I'm focused on the issues that affect Australians. When you focus on yourself, I can tell you, it doesn't help the Australian people. When I'm out and about every single day. The one thing that is raised with me is that people don't feel better off under Labor they were promised the world prior to the election. I mean, in particular, 97 times, who can forget that? 'If I'm elected,' said Mr. Albanese, 'I'll reduce your power bill by $275.' Well, the bad news now for Australians is, you know, your electricity is up. Some people are paying $1,000 per bill. That is just unbelievable. Twenty-seven thousand businesses have gone insolvent. Living standards have collapsed. I mean, that's the record of the Albanese Government, and that's what I'm focused on. Getting Australia back on track. Getting back to basics and turning that around.
PETERSON: Patrick?
GORMAN: Oly I'm just going to bring your listeners, just because they might not have had chance to read this on WA Today, which is that there's a report that Barnaby Joyce, as Michaelia said, the former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, serving in one of the most senior roles you can have in the National Party. The second most senior role you can have in the Coalition. The second most senior political role in Australia, is going to be axed from the Coalition frontbench because they're already fighting over who's going to get what jobs if they win. I mean, this is spectacular. That an election hasn't even been called. No one's cast a single vote, and already the knives are out in the Coalition. I mean, we've seen this film before, and no one likes the ending. It was incredibly disappointing. We saw all of them fighting. Barnaby Joyce was in, he was out, he was knifed, he was back, and they want to repeat that all over again. I mean, and if that's the case, then Michaela is the Leader in the Senate, Peter Dutton and David Littleproud, they should just come out and say so; say they're going to axe this guy. I mean, it really is incredible, and maybe they should sack him. I mean, the reports are that he was playing with One Nation behind the scenes, looking at possibly joining them. I mean, it's an extraordinary set of leaks and infighting. And as I said - no one's cast a single vote. The election hasn't even been called yet. And this is where the Liberal Party and the National Party find themselves.
PETERSON: Are you fighting amongst offices already, Senator Cash? You're measuring up offices and desk chairs and new tables to form a ministry in a Dutton Government?
CASH: I don't take anything for granted. There is a long way to go. But the bad news in particular for Western Australians is that every credible commentator out there says we are currently in minority government, and God help Australia if that minority government is Anthony Albanese, governing with the Australian Greens, some of the most left wing radical ideologues this country has ever seen. So I will be doing everything I can between now and the next election to clearly articulate our vision for the Australian public. As I said, they can go online. They can read about how our plan will get Australia back on track, fight the cost of living pressures, build a stronger economy, back in our small businesses; 27,000 of them have gone bankrupt under Mr. Albanese's watch. That is a record high. It will cut back on government waste that is fuelling inflation, re-balance our migration program, fix the housing crisis. Oly, that is what I'm focused on, squarely and fairly, the Australian people. Because when a government gets its priorities wrong, as you've seen in the almost three long years under Labor, when they get its policies wrong, things go wrong for the Australian people.
PETERSON: Let's talk about the housing crisis for a moment. And Patrick, is there any way that the government can look to try and grandfather the National Rental Affordability Scheme? Because, on behalf of a few listeners, like Judy and Jill, who are about to be homeless in the coming weeks, and they are age pensioners, can't there be a way to keep them in their homes in their golden years of their lives?
GORMAN: Well firstly to Judy and Jill, that's really concerning that anyone would be finding themselves in that position, particularly when you should be enjoying your retirement, enjoying the pension, enjoying life. What I'd say to Judy and Jill is if I had a time machine and I could go back to say to Senator Cash and others back in 2014 when they ended the National Rental Affordability Scheme, 'here are the people who are going to be adversely impacted by that decision.' It was one of the big cuts. The closure of the National Rental Affordability Scheme was one of the big cuts in the first budget when Tony Abbott came to office in 2014 and so I'm really concerned that we're going to see another round of big cuts if Mr. Dutton and his colleagues were to get back into office with the Liberal-National Government. We know that they want to cut. One of the things they've already said they're going to cut is the $10 billion from the National Housing Australia Future Fund. That $10 billion is what we put in place to be the next generation of affordable housing. Because for 10 years under the Liberals and Nats, we didn't have Commonwealth investment in housing. That's a fact. We didn't have investment in social and affordable housing. They closed NRAS in 2014. We are still seeing the horrible compounding effects of that throughout our communities. It was a bad decision then. We've tried to get back into the game of the Commonwealth government investing in housing, because ultimately we've got to build more. We've got to build more everywhere. We are doing it down on Pier Street in my electorate, in Perth, 210 affordable and social homes. There was not a single cent in the budget when we came to office for projects like that, we've put $32 billion in the budget to make sure that we can build the houses Australians need, and especially for pensioners and others who really should expect that there is that social safety net for them. And we have to do more, and we'll continue to announce more. We announced more on the weekend, and we'll continue to announce more initiatives to get the housing Australians need. Because I really believe that every Australian should be able to find a safe, secure place to call home.
PETERSON: Oh, sure, I know everybody agrees with that, but we have really let down all Australian people at the moment. Michaelia Cash, can you address the housing crisis? Can the Liberals do it better than what the government's done the last three years?
CASH: Well, in the first instance, what I'd say is, despite everything that Patrick has just said, here's a fact: under Mr. Albanese, zero social housing or affordable homes have been built. That happens to be a fact. Zero.
GORMAN: We will put the hard hats on, we'll go down to Pier Street, and we can see them being built right there. Just down the road from your office, down the road from mine.
CASH: Zero. Oly, the reality is this. Today, the dream of home ownership is beyond the reach of so many. It is just an issue that when you got cost of living, and then housing affordability entering the property market should not be limited to those who can rely on the bank of mum and dad. And we have made it clear that under Peter Dutton, we will restore the dream of home ownership, and we will make that achievable again. One of our first priorities will be to fix the housing crisis. We have already announced a plan, and as I've said to your listeners, you can go online, you can have a look at it. It'll free up more than 100,000 homes over the next five years, and it will unlock up to half a million new homes through new infrastructure funding. But the key to managing the housing demand in particular, and this is something that I hear when I go out and about across Australia, it is through a sensible migration intake that our housing supply growth can handle. And one of the huge issues with Mr. Albanese is the number of people he brought into this country without any regard for where they were going to live. So we need, and we're committed to this, reduce migration to sensible levels that our housing supply can handle -
GORMAN: What's the number?
CASH: But our basic premise is the dream of home ownership is beyond so many. It shouldn't be, and we've clearly set out a plan. You can go online and have a look at it, and we will act immediately to fix the housing crisis that Mr. Albanese has created.
PETERSON: All right, Patrick and Michaelia, we are out of time. I certainly appreciate your time. We'll do Question Time again with you soon. Thank you very much.
CASH: Great, thank you. Have a great afternoon.
GORMAN: Thanks Oly.
