Patrick Gorman MP on Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: All this talk of the political year starting early, it doesn't really start until you see the Monday panel of choice. Joining me for their first hit out of 2025, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, and former Liberal MP, Jason Falinski. Thank you both for your time. Just going to start, I'm going to play nice for a question for each of you, just to get you in the mood. Because, you know, I'm always cantankerous at the end of the year. Jason, the Liberal Party, surely not even in its wildest dreams did it think it would be sort of genuinely in the running to form government after the reckoning that Scott Morrison copped last time.

JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: I always knew it, Tom, I was saying from September of 2022 that the way this Government was going, that Peter Dutton would end up as Prime Minister of Australia, so I'm claiming credit as someone who said it both confidently and early.

CONNELL: Well, early is definitely accurate, isn't it, because it's not there yet. But there we go, Jason Falinksi hates a chance and we like that on the program. Now, I've got to be nice to you I guess, Patrick. Must have a pep in your step, the Prime Minister's fired you up there in the caucus room. We took it live to our viewers. What made you so inspired after the address from Anthony Albanese?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: What inspires me is that we've got a really good story to tell about the work we've done, creating 1.1 million jobs, starting to get on top of the fight against inflation. Remember, it was 6.1% when we came to office. That's what we inherited from Jason and his mates. It's now 2.4% and we've got wages growing.

FALINSKI: That's not true.

GORMAN: So many countries in the world are so jealous of those outcomes. Those are the sort of numbers that others are envious of. I think we've done a really good job of getting the economic mess that we inherited from Jason and friends, just under three years ago, back under control.

But also, we're the only ones with costed plans for the future. We've got a costed plan to get HECS debt down, costed plans to make sure that we do more for early childhood education -

FALINKSI: That's a plan is it?

CONNELL: I said I'd start nice, go for it.

GORMAN: Jason, it sounds like you've been out on one of those taxpayer funded long lunches.

FALINSKI: Okay.

CONNELL: Can't be one of those there's no alcohol included in those, so -

FALINSKI: I'm not sure why you would bring that up. Listen Tom -

CONNELL: Jason let me ask you -

FALINSKI: Tom this is quite serious -

CONNELL: - in terms of where we're at now.

FALINSKI: No Tom, I've got to answer that, though. I've got to answer that.

CONNELL: Sure, go. Go on.

FALINSKI: Well, look, you know, the fact of the matter is, the Labor Party keep talking about this. 'Inflation was high' - it wasn't. They got an economy that was in superb shape. They were gifted -

GORMAN: Six point one per cent is high.

FALINSKI: - two budget surpluses, which they - no, no, no. That didn't happen until after you were elected, Pat, but above and beyond -

GORMAN: There were deficits in your projections -

FALINSKI: - everyone, including the Reserve Bank, says -

GORMAN: Deficits.

FALINSKI: Everyone says -

GORMAN: Deficits projected as far as the Liberal eyes can see.

FALINSKI: - including the Reserve Bank, that you guys, that you guys, have kept inflation higher for longer than necessary because of the spend-a-thon you've been running in Canberra. Now, today is a sad day, Tom. Kyle Sandilands has had to announce that he's going to have brain surgery, and we wish him - the Prime Minister's favourite shock jock - but we wish him a very fast recovery. And Pat's come on here and done a terrible job at defending his Prime Minister. I mean, this is a shocking Government where wages have fallen. Real wages have fallen by over 10% under this Government. And Australians feel that, know it, and that's why they're in danger of losing government after just one term.

CONNELL: There's a bit to fit in there, I'll just focus on one stat. Inflation, June 2022, this came out many months after the Morrison Government, but that quarter takes in, that's the end of the Morrison Government. It was 6.1%. That's high, isn't it?

FALINSKI: Yeah 6.1% for one quarter is high.

GORMAN: Tom it is high, and it was really hurting households.

CONNELL: But that's where it was, that was the rate of annual inflation.

FALINSKI: And so have, hang on, and so have the industrial relations changes that this government has made for its biggest donors, that saw real wages in Australia fall by over 10%. The only place in the world where real wages fell by that much Tom. Now, you know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, but every Australian household knows that they're doing it harder under Albanese than they were under the previous government. And warned them Tom, we said it wouldn't be easy under Albanese -

CONNELL: I'll go to Pat, but I'll just point out that 6.1% was the rate of inflation as the Morrison Government ended, even though we didn't get that measure months later. But for you, Pat Gorman, if voters are measuring how they've fared over the past three years, you'll be in a lot of trouble, won't you? That the overall household expenditure in terms of what's available, your spending power has gone down massively, and that that's going to hurt Labor, isn't it?

GORMAN: I think that voters know that when we've had to make choices, we've chosen them. We've made choices that have meant that people would be some $7,000 better off under us, than had we've taken the policy propositions that Mr. Dutton and his colleagues have put forward. If we had not done what we planned to do when it came to tax cuts for Australians, if we had not done what we did when it came to Fee Free TAFE, and if we had not done things like Energy Bill Relief, people would be in much more pain.

And what people know today, and what we saw yesterday from Peter Dutton as Leader of the Liberal Party, is that they are planning further cuts that they won't tell us about until they get into government. He said he was going to do, quote, "economic surgery." Now, I don't think you'd let the surgeon put you under the gas and start cutting with the knife, if they didn't tell you where they're going to cut. You might wake up without an arm, you might wake up without a kidney. And what Mr. Dutton has said is that he is going to do that "economic surgery" after he comes to office, without telling a single Australian where those cuts come from. Now -

CONNELL: - Waking up no kidney, it's like that sort of backpackers nightmare, isn't it? But Jason, on that; I mean, you're kind of like the backroom operative now, the strategist. Were you a bit alarmed when Peter Dutton outlined unnamed cuts because of government waste?

FALINSKI: Well, seriously, Tom. I mean, I feel sorry for Pat here. I mean, he's having to defend one of the worst economic outcomes in the world. I mean, real wages have fallen by more than 10%, and that is a statistic that we will be hanging around their necks between now and whenever the Prime Minister has the courage to call an election. The fact of the matter is, that one of the reasons that inflation has stayed so high for so long, as every credible economist now agrees, is because this government went on a massive spend-a-thon and so, of course -

CONNELL: - But shouldn't the Opposition say what they'll cut?

FALINSKI: - we need to cut back spending. It is out of control. Well, how do we know? I mean, this government has hidden where it is spending money, left, right and centre. I mean, you only have to go to a barbeque -

CONNELL: Well if you're saying it's wasteful, you must know what's wasteful? If you don't know what the spending is, how could it be wasteful?

FALINSKI: - and you'll hear people hear people talking about - well, Tom, because, as I said, you only have to go down to a barbeque in most people's backyards and they'll, everyone has got a story about someone who is receiving money from the NDIS, or services from the NDIS, that they shouldn't be. Which means that people who are deserving are missing out. People -

GORMAN: Wait a minute Jason,

FALINSKI: And people -

GORMAN: Jason, Jason.

FALINSKI: Yes Patrick.

GORMAN: If you are going to barbeques where people are talking about NDIS fraud, can you please report that as is appropriate. I don't think that's what happening, and I think you know that that is not what is happening.

FALINSKI: Absolutely.

GORMAN: What we are doing is getting NDIS spending back on track.

FALINSKI: And Patrick - that is exactly what is happening -

GORMAN: If you are going to these barbeques where you are becoming aware of serious misconduct and corruption in a government agency with spending that shouldn't be there, report it. I think that's just a line that you made up.

FALINSKI: Done, Patrick. Done, Patrick.

GORMAN: And I'm going to call it out. Because, actually, the NDIS is about supporting people -

FALINSKI: - No, I didn't make it up. That is outrageous!

GORMAN: The NDIS is about supporting people who need support because they have permanent disability. It's about making sure that people get the support they need to live full, active lives in Australia. We've cleaned it up. Proudly so, because there were some rorts in the system -

CONNELL: Bit of a way to go, isn't there, Pat? Still a bit of rorting and so on going on in the NDIS, reclassifying, all that sort of stuff? It isn't 'mission accomplished,' is it?

FALINSKI: Oh no, none, Patrick, none, it's all fine.

GORMAN: We put legislation through the Parliament to tidy up what was happening under the Coalition -

FALINSKI: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's all fine. To "tidy up?"

GORMAN: But if Jason -

CONNELL: All right, I'm going to leave it there, we're out of time, I was sort of enjoying that. Passionate, that's what we want in this program. And they smile at the end of it at least, when I've given them an elongated thank you and say I'll probably see you next week. It's a sitting week, so probably not. Anyway, we'll see what we can figure out. Jason, Patrick, thank you.