QUESTION: Scott Jennings sitting here on SiriusXM Patriot 125, normally the David Webb Show. I am guest hosting for Mr. Webb today, and it is our honor to welcome to the airwaves this morning the Secretary of State of the United States Marco Rubio, former senator from Florida, and now, thanks to President Trump, the United States Secretary of State.
Mr. Secretary, welcome to the show.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Hey, thanks for having me.
QUESTION: I appreciate you being on this morning. You're on the move. You have just returned from your first foreign trip. You went to Panama, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Guatemala, and the Dominican Republic. I want to jump right in this morning and just ask how was the trip, what did we accomplish, and what's the disposition in those countries towards the United States now that we have a new administration?
SECRETARY RUBIO: I think the disposition is very positive. I think these are countries that want to be aligned with the United States. That's why we picked them. They also happen to be countries that are on the migratory route, on the drug routes, and face tremendous challenges because of that. These are the places people cross in order to come to the U.S., so each of them are very different.
Like in the case of Panama, obviously we have an issue with the canal and foreign influence over it, and so we raised that. And I think we're going to make a couple of announcements. We saw the - Panama pulled out of the Belt and Road Initiative with China, which is the first country in the Western Hemisphere to actually pull out of that. And I think we'll hear more things. They've got to work through their own processes there, but I think we'll see even more in the days to come. So, it's very positive.
Costa Rica is an advanced economy. They're doing very well, of course, but they do have some challenges where drug rings are running through there, and so we partner with them to stop that. But that's a very pro-American government, and we wanted to interact with them. They're very good partners and, also, have been very strong at standing up to the Chinese Communist Party's influence in the region, and so that's been great.
And then moved on to El Salvador. We have a great partner there in Nayib Bukele. I've known him for a long time, and he made a very generous offer. I don't know if it can happen because of our own laws, but he offered to not only take in gang members that are illegally in the country but also any Americans who are in our jails - almost like outsourcing. So, it was an interesting offer from him. But he's a great pro-American leader and, again, someone that has been very popular in his country by the way. He's like 90 percent approval rating.
Guatemala is a country that obviously is right on the border with Mexico. They struggle with the migration. They're a source country, but they're also a transit country for drugs and people. And so, they're trying to - they're doing the best they can with their limited resources, and we're helping them to stop the drugs and the migration. But they've also - they're going to almost double the number of deportation flights they're going to take, and they're also going to accept third-country people, people from other countries that are not from Guatemala, as part of this process, and then from there move them on to the - their nation of origin.
And then we finished in the Dominican Republic, which really the biggest challenge they face there are two-fold. The one is what's happening right across their border with Haiti, which they're deporting people back to Haiti every day. That - we can't really visit Haiti right now, but that's as close as we could get. And so, we wanted to talk about that from there, and that's important because that also poses a threat to the United States that there's a mass migration event. And it's just a horrifying situation with these gangs taking over Port-au-Prince or large parts of it.
And then they're also a great partner stopping drugs. A lot of drug rings are - bring - try to bring drugs into the Dominican Republic because from there, over the Mona Passage, they get to Puerto Rico. And once you get into Puerto Rico, you're in the U.S. There's no more customs after that. There's no more border protection after that. So, it's something we're going to work with them on.
So, it's a good start to the trip, and then we finished off on Friday going to Southern Command, which is the Pentagon's command for the whole region, and talked through some of these issues with them and the partnerships they have in the region. So, it's a good way to start my - I guess my second - end my second week as Secretary of State.
QUESTION: Yeah, most folks when they start a new job in the second week are still looking for the bathroom, and here you are in all these other countries. It's a really good way to get going.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, well, we're still looking for the bathrooms but - finding out where everything is at in the building, but it was important to get out there and visit these countries early.
QUESTION: So, you raised an issue that I think Donald Trump, President Trump, deserves a lot of credit for tackling immediately, and that is the concept of the United States combatting Chinese influence in this region, in this hemisphere. And obviously, this has been an issue with Panama and the Panama Canal, but it's really an issue everywhere. Can you talk a little bit about this? Is this one of your principal missions to make sure that the United States, and not China, is the dominant superpower at a minimum in this region and in the world?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, look, China is a rich, powerful country and that's what they're going to be. Like that's not going to change, right? They've got over a billion people. They've got a big economy, second-largest economy in the world. I mean, and we're going to be competing with them for the rest of the century and beyond. And I think the story of the 21st century is going to be about what happened between the U.S. and China.
What we can't allow is for that to come at our expense. What we can't allow is an imbalance, a dangerous imbalance, to build up where they're more powerful than we are, and then - or we become dependent on them. And that danger is already there that we've become dependent on them for supply chains, for manufacturing, economically, all these sorts of things.
So, what's happened in part of the region is that they swoop in. And look, they're doing what I would do. If I was in charge of China, I would do exactly what they're doing. But I have to - I I'm not in charge of China. I run the State Department for the United States and I'm an American citizen, so I've got to do what's good for America. That's what President Trump is for. And that includes not getting run out of the Western Hemisphere, not waking up one day and finding out that China has more influence over our neighboring countries than we do, that China has more presence in our neighboring countries than we do. That's - it's - geography is real and it's right on top of us, and these are countries that are our neighbors, and we just - we can't live in a world in which they have more influence and more presence than we do in the countries closest to us.
QUESTION: So, on the prospect of American influence in the world - and I wholeheartedly agree with you about our need to stand up to China - a lot of people are wondering about the reorientation of American soft power in the world. Obviously, President Trump and his administration and working with you have made some dramatic shifts in the way we distribute foreign aid and the bureaucracy, the USAID bureaucracy, which you are now also simultaneously in charge of.
I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of political attacks out there of people trying to score points. I just kind of want to set the record straight here about what we're doing. And we've eliminated some bureaucracy, but you're in charge of American soft power and you're in charge of our influence around the world. Can you kind of give us an idea of how this is going to work, and why the American people should be reassured that American influence is going to be top of mind for your State Department?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first of all, we're not walking away from foreign aid. We will be involved in foreign aid. I believe that foreign aid done right is good for the country, but it has to be done right. Now, the idea that somehow we spend between $40 and $60 billion on foreign aid and all that money is well spent or on things that make sense is absurd. There's a lot of it that isn't. And so the goal is very simple: Go through all of our foreign aid - a lot of it is through USAID, some of it is through State Department; identify the foreign aid that makes sense, the foreign aid that actually supports our country and that supports our national interests, and continue to do that; and then get rid of the ones that are a waste of money, or in some cases or run counter to our foreign - to our national interest and to our interests around the world. And that's what we're going through right now.
The problem is that this foreign aid industrial complex has built up of NGOs and all kinds of groups that benefit from these programs, and argue that you can't get rid of a single one of them; if you cut any of them, if you even ask questions about them, you're undermining American soft power. So, this is not - despite some of these reports, this is not about walking away from foreign aid. This is about doing the aid that makes sense and getting rid of the aid that does not make sense. That's it. That's what this is about.
So we were in Guatemala, right? And they have a program where we help them to improve their police department so they can stop and identify fentanyl before it gets into America. That's foreign aid we're going to support. In fact, I issued a waiver so we can continue that program. There are other things that we're not going to do. We shouldn't be sponsoring LGBTQ operas. I don't know how that foreign - furthers the national interest.
And this is taxpayer money. Look, if someone wants to pay for that stuff, you're more than happy to go out, go ahead. It's legal. Go out and raise all the money, private-sector money, and spend it on that. But we shouldn't be spending taxpayer money or using American Government agencies to sponsor things that make absolutely no sense. So, we put a pause on all foreign aid, and now we're going through it project by project. We're going to get rid of the ones that don't make sense, and we're going to keep or even build on the ones that do make sense.
QUESTION: So, the things that make sense in your mind - fighting drugs, fighting illegal immigration. What about lifesaving issues? There's been a lot of back and forth in the media about things that we do from a humanitarian perspective that are lifesaving medical-type programming, particularly in Africa with PEPFAR and malaria and such. How do you view those things?
SECRETARY RUBIO: I'm a supporter of PEPFAR. I have been in Congress. I am now as Secretary of State. It's a program we want to continue. Obviously, we're going to have questions about it. Look, if PEPFAR is working well, it's a program that should be getting smaller over time, not bigger, right? Because you're preventing HIV, you're preventing the spread of HIV, and so people aren't testing positive because their viral load gets down, they're not passing it on to their children.
So ideally, it's a program that over time shrinks, not expands, because less and less people are getting HIV or are transmitting it to their children. That was always the goal was an AIDS-free generation, so no child was born with HIV. And - but it's a program I've supported, and we want to continue to do it. And things like are people going to starve to death, are we going to have a famine? Is it going to destabilize a country in a way that would be negative to our national interest and open the door for radical jihadists or others to take advantage? We're going to continue to do those. But the problem is that the definition of humanitarian has expanded beyond that - to all kinds of other things that do not make sense. That doesn't mean they're bad ideas. Someone should do it. It just shouldn't be the American taxpayer.
So that's the kind of things that we're going through right now and identifying. And by the way, we issued a waiver which allowed all these lifesaving programs to continue. And obviously, there's - any time you have a pause or some hiccups about how to restart the payment programs, but all that's going to get taken care of here very quickly, and those programs will continue. We're not walking away from foreign aid. We are walking away from foreign aid that's dumb, that's stupid, that wastes American taxpayer money. We're just not going to continue to do those.
QUESTION: I think that what you're doing is long overdue. This whole bureaucracy existed, and it really existed with very little political oversight. And really all that the Trump Administration, at your direction, is doing is making sure that whatever money we spend somehow helps the national interest. And I think every American taxpayer wants the money we spend to help the national interest. And Trump and you, Mr. Secretary, on the right side of what I think is an 80-20 issue here. And so, you see this amazing disconnect in the media, people fussing about this.
But some of these projects that you've identified are patently ridiculous. And so, by moving this into your office and by taking personal political oversight over it, not only are you saving us money, but you're just aligning our spending with what's in direct interest of the United States foreign policy under the direction of the President of the United States. I mean, that's the point of elections. That's the point of having a government, not to let unelected bureaucrats determine our national direction but to let our political leadership do it.
Mr. Secretary, in the time that we have, I want to move ahead. You're about to embark on your second foreign trip. You're going to the Munich Security Conference, and then you're going to the Middle East. I think you're going to Israel, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia - obviously a hot spot or region. What is your mission here? What are we trying to accomplish in the Middle East? What's your message at the Munich Security Conference later this week?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, in Munich, I think it's just to reaffirm to everybody - even though it's located in Europe - obviously, that's where the forum is - it's not just about Europe. People from all - leaders from all over the world go that conference. But the top of mind for everyone is going to be war in Ukraine, and the President has been very clear. President Trump has been clear that the war in Ukraine needs to end. There's a - he's going to sort of begin to lay out a broad path forward, and he wants that war to end. It'd be in the interest of everybody for that war to end, and so obviously we'll be discussing that with foreign ministers and other leaders there.
And then in the Middle East, beyond just the - what we know has happened with - after October 7th, there's some potentially exciting opportunities to really change the dynamic in that region, and that's the things we want to talk about. We've seen in Lebanon where a new government is now in place and Hizballah has been - I mean, imagine a region where you have a stable Lebanese government and Hizballah is no longer controlling the southern part of Lebanon and threatening Israel every day. Imagine potentially - we've got to wait and see, right? - but a Syria no longer under Assad, no longer with Iranian or Russian influence, no longer with ISIS, sort of no longer a security threat to Isreal. Imagine a region where Israel now feels secure because of what's happened in Lebanon and in Syria that they can enter into a peace deal with Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf kingdoms; a Sunni-Israeli peace deal akin to the Camp David Accords with Egypt and the peace with Jordan. Suddenly you have a very different region where all kinds of things that were not possible before are now possible.
And that's the opportunity that we hope to explore and see if it's possible. We have an obligation to explore, at the end. I mean, President Trump has made very clear that part of his agenda is promoting peace in the world; and if there's a chance to create conditions for peace, that's certainly something we're going to do our best to try to foster and be a part of.
QUESTION: I want to ask you briefly about the hostage deal that was in place as Biden was exiting and President Trump was coming in. Obviously, a few hostages have been released. Some of the video of the hostages is, frankly, horrific. What they had done to them in captivity at the hands of Hamas is nothing short of barbaric. I saw that President Trump last night on the way to the Super Bowl made a comment about this and said he's seen some of these abductees coming out. He said, "They look like Holocaust survivors. I know there's an agreement that Hamas releases a little every week, but I don't know how long I'll continue to endure this. My patience is running out."
Is this something you're going to discuss when you're in the Middle East? Are we - is our patience running thin here, and are these hostages being more mistreated than we could have even imagined before?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I don't think there's any coincidence in the schedule that they're being released where they obviously released the ones, they thought were in the best condition first, then over time you're starting to see the impact of this. But I also think it's very revealing of who Hamas is and what Hamas is.
You look at these images of what they - first of all, the humiliation that they have to go through. Just put aside for a moment the horrifying conditions they were kept and the horrifying things that happened to some of those hostages, on top of the fact that these were innocent civilians. I mean, none of these were soldiers. These are not combatants. These are just people that were abducted for purposes of being used as leverage. And they're getting, what, 200 certified killers in exchange for one innocent hostage. But it reveals who Hamas is.
Look at these humiliation, they put them through before they're released, where they do these big public displays of force. Do any of those Hamas fighters look like they've been skipping meals? Do any of those Hamas fighters that you see look like they've been suffering over the last year and a half? Clearly, these people are - the ones suffering are the people from Gaza, but not them. And then the conditions they're held in. So, it's incredibly revealing about what we're dealing with. This is an evil organization. Hamas is evil. It's pure evil. These are monsters. These are savages. That's a group that needs to be eradicated.
And let me tell you, if they still are the dominant power in Gaza when all this is done, there is not going to peace in the Middle East, as long as a group like Hamas physically controls territory and is the most dominant power in Gaza or anywhere in the Middle East. And I hope people can see who these people actually are, in the condition of these hostages - not just the conditions that they're in when they're released, but what they have to endure on the way out.
QUESTION: You raise the issue of Gaza, and before you go, obviously President Trump made some news on this last week. And it strikes me that what you're executing is a realistic foreign policy. I mean, we're in the common-sense doctrine era of the United States, which people are saying thank goodness, finally.
On Gaza, on the idea of a two-state solution, is this no longer the policy of the United States? It seems to me that you all are injecting realism into this situation and that most of the people the Israelis have had to deal with over time simply don't want peace, and we've been trying to put a square peg in a round hole here.
What is our policy? That people that run Gaza eventually are going to have to accept peace? And that's not what - that's just not been the disposition of the folks we've been dealing with heretofore.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, the big challenge for this whole two-state solution has not been Isreal. It's been: Who's going to govern that second state? Who's going to be in charge of it? If the people in charge of it are Hamas or Hizballah or anybody like that, these are groups that - whose goal is the destruction of the Jewish state.
So, I don't know how you're going to have peace if you're turning over territory to a group whose stated purpose is the destruction of the Jewish state. Why would any country in the world agree to create a second state on their border that is governed by armed elements who kidnap babies and murder babies and rape teenage girls and abduct innocents and whose stated goal and purpose for existing is the - is your destruction? Who would agree to that? So that's the fundamental challenge.
On the broader challenge of Gaza, the President's just pointed to the obvious. I mean, Gaza is a place that, in addition to all the damage it suffered in the war - Hamas hides in the tunnels. It's the civilians who they hide behind and underneath that have suffered the consequences of this. But that's a place where there's all kinds of unexploded munitions and bombs that Hamas has, that's been used in the conflict. Someone's got to go in - for anybody to be able to live there, someone's got to - you've got to clean it up. You've got to clean all that out of there even before you begin the process of removing rubble and debris and rebuilding housing, like permanent structures. Who's going to do that?
And right now, the only one who's stood up and said I'm willing to help do it is Donald Trump. All these other leaders, they're going to have to step up. If they've got a better idea, then now is the time. Now is the time for the other governments and other powers in the region, some of these very rich countries, to basically say, okay, we'll do it. We're going to pay for this; we're going to step forward; we're going to be the ones that take charge. None of them is offering to do it. And I think that you can't go around claiming that you're a fighter for, an advocate for the Palestinian people, but you're not willing to do anything to help rebuild Gaza. And so far, we haven't seen a lot of - they've all - they'll all tell you what they're not for. But we're still waiting for more countries to step forward and say here's what we're willing to do. And right now, they've not been willing to do anything and - or at least anything concrete.
So that's a challenge that President Trump's put out there. And it's outside the box, but that's what he always is. I mean, he is going to state the obvious. It's the one thing about Donald Trump - he doesn't hide behind silly, traditional lies and things of that nature. He's going to put out blunt truth. And the blunt truth is that the Middle East has, for too long, been a region of places all of whom love to talk but don't want to do. So, it's time - if they don't like Donald Trump's plan, then it's time for these countries in the region to step forward and offer their solution.
QUESTION: Well, I think under President Trump's leadership, under your leadership, we're living in a common-sense era, we're in an aspirational era, and we're in a realistic era. And I think the American people are grateful for it. You have had an amazing run already, just in the first few weeks of being in office. You had an amazing first foreign trip. You've got one coming up this week.
The foreign affairs wins of the Trump Administration are already piling up, with Mexico agreeing to send troops to their border; Canada playing ball on their border issues; Colombia accepting the repatriation flights; Panama ending its Belt and Road Initiative deal with China; the ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon. We've taken out an ISIS leader in Somalia. You guys are off to an amazing start. And I think that's why Donald Trump has a high approval rating right now, and why people are so grateful that you accepted this job as U.S. Secretary of State.
Secretary Rubio, thanks for being with us on SiriusXM Patriot today.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Thanks for having me on.
QUESTION: All right. Safe travels.
