Minister for Indigenous Australians
Stewart brash, HOST: In the lead-up to Summer, federal Labor's been in Alice Springs, they've been splashing some cash, we've heard about the boarding facilities for three schools here in Alice, school holiday programs, community patrols. And just this morning the Feds have announced $1.5 million to support up to 90 Aboriginal job seekers here in Central Australia. Now, that will go to Saltbush's Foundation to the Future program. Malarndirri McCarthy, Minister for Indigenous Australians, good morning.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning, Stewart, and good morning to your listeners.
Stewart brash: Just before we go any further, just explain the Foundation for the Future program. Is this different to any other programs currently available to job seekers in Central Australia?
Minister McCarthy: What I'll be doing this morning, Stewart, is meeting with Saltbush to actually go through the program in more detail. They've been, obviously, discussing this with the National Indigenous Australians Agency and the staff there for quite some time, and it is important to be able to look at, obviously, remote jobs and jobs more broadly across the Territory and Australia.
Stewart brash: Is it real jobs? Is it going to be ongoing? So, it's good to get people into training and give them opportunities but will there be real jobs at the end of this?
Minister McCarthy: I'm always pushing for real jobs, Stewart. Of course, some areas, and I'm not talking specifically with Saltbush, but there will be areas of training, for example, when we have the 500 health traineeship positions rolling out across the country. There is an expectation through the Aboriginal Medical Services that take them on that they will employ them. So, I do expect there to be opportunities even if they were training opportunities.
Stewart brash: I'll come back to CDP because that's something which I know there are still trials going on, but I'll come back to that later on as we head towards 8 o'clock, but can I focus on NT politics ‑
Minister McCarthy: Sure.
STEWART BRASH: ‑ and things which happened last night. Now, the new CLP Government all this week has been pushing through their changes to law and order. They've used their super majority to look at Declan's Law. They've actually brought in Declan's Law, posting and boasting laws. Last night the NT Parliament passed the legislation which would drop the age of criminal responsibility back to 10. As the Minister for Indigenous Australians, do you oppose that change?
Minister McCarthy: I'm deeply disappointed that this legislation has been rushed through in the manner that it has, Stewart, especially given the views across the Northern Territory about the concerns for children and youth. There are so many questions around what is happening with youth now, even here in Central Australia, what is going on with the juvenile facility, also in Darwin. And I think that those conversations haven't been had and you do have a new government, a new administration, and in good faith those conversations, in my view, should have taken place.
Stewart brash: You knew full well as we ran into ‑ or after the election, it's been seven weeks since the NT election, they were very clear what they were going to do. They have done it. Did they not have a mandate to do this?
Minister McCarthy: Well, you asked me what I thought about passing the legislation last night and that's my view. Obviously, any government that comes in with such an overwhelming majority believe they have a mandate. But I also believe that every government recognises that there are really pickled issues that do need to be done sensibly and responsibly, and, in my view, there was a missed opportunity with this piece of legislation.
Stewart brash: What about the other piece of legislation, we've seen Declan's Law about ‑ this is again about bail and the ‑ and whether or not people get bail for violent offences, posting and boasting laws. Do you have any concerns about those laws, and do you feel as though, because we have voted for this government, people in the Northern Territory voted, that they should be supported in these changes? Do you support those changes, though, as opposed to the drop in the criminal responsibility?
Minister McCarthy: Well, I certainly see with the posting and boasting laws, I'll be interested to read what that piece of legislation is going to do. At the federal level, we are concerned with the use of social media. We're dealing with that piece of legislation ourselves in terms of what does that look like in reducing the age for young people on social media. So, I am interested to have a look at that, Stewart. In terms of the other areas, of course, there are many other pieces of legislation that went through and I am, as you've said, aware that they raised that throughout the election campaign.
Stewart brash: The CLP say they will cut crime. Do you believe this raft of changes will cut crime?
Minister McCarthy: No, it won't. I don't believe it will, not when you also see the changes with alcohol. We saw here in Alice Springs when the Prime Minister came in nearly two years ago to talk to the then Territory Labor Government about looking at its alcohol laws because we knew it was having a profound impact, a disastrous impact on the streets of Alice Springs in particular. So, I would certainly say that any changes to alcohol which increases alcohol output across the Northern Territory, will be a real concern.
Stewart brash: I was going to talk about it later on but let's look at that ‑ that very issue. We've heard that they're going to drop the minimum floor price. They were quite clear on that. We know that they will review the restrictions. It's been signalled that at some point by Steve Edgington they'll review the restrictions both probably in Alice Springs and Tennant Creek. Given those laws were brought in, the restrictions in Alice Springs especially, were brought in January and February of last year, under your government, under the concern over the amount of alcohol‑fuelled violence in this town, if the CLP go down the road of review, what's your advice to them?
Minister McCarthy: Well, I would say to them go out with the patrollers here in Alice Springs on a Monday night. Go out with them on a Thursday night and see the difference. Monday ‑
Stewart brash: So should ‑ should we tinker at all ‑
Minister McCarthy: And Tuesday ‑
Stewart brash: ‑ with Monday and Tuesday? Should Monday and Tuesday be touched?
Minister McCarthy: Well, talking to the police and the family and community sector plus the patrollers, the nights are halved almost, according to them in terms of violence, in terms of assaults and in terms of pick‑ups because of the lack of alcohol on the streets. So, I think anyone can see that there is a direct correlation there that alcohol is having this disastrous effect. Now, I recognise that alcohol is also something that people like to do to relax, to unwind, and I know that there has to be some kind of balance. But when you do see the dangerous impacts it's having on family and domestic violence, you know, certainly to the point of murders of women across the Northern Territory, there are things that really do need to have to happen in terms of alcohol.
Stewart brash: So, you don't think there should be changes to the Alice Springs current suite of restrictions?
Minister McCarthy: Well, look, I was here on Wednesday night going out with the patrollers, and certainly last night saw the difference with having alcohol back on the streets, and I would say that many residents in Alice Springs probably have a better sleep on Monday and Tuesday night than they do the rest of the week.
Stewart brash: Can I just return back to the issue of the criminal age of responsibility. Now, I spoke to Selena Uibo, the Leader of the Opposition this week. I made the point to her that maybe the problem for Labor was that (a) they didn't let the age of criminal responsibility go for more than a year but the programs which they said they'd deliver they didn't deliver. Can we put the blame on these changes and what the CLP have done on the fact that Labor failed to make the changes, the age of criminal responsibility, work during that one year, because most people say, "Where are these programs?"
Minister McCarthy: Well, I just think from the perspective of the families, Stewart, they're pretty tired of government changing pieces of legislation, irrespective of who that government is, whether it's Labor or Liberal. They want their children to grow up. They want consistency in the laws. They want to know that they won't end up in gaol; that they'll actually end up in a job. So, I think that every politician, regardless of their stripes, needs to be responsible in what they're doing and also reflect quite deeply on the pieces of legislation that they could have had in place.
Stewart brash: But my answer is could Labor have implemented their changes to the age of criminal responsibility better so that, in fact, that we didn't see the rates of offending we saw with young people while there were no programs or while kids were just being returned back to responsible adults as they were said.
Minister McCarthy: Well, clearly, you've put that question to the Opposition Leader, Selena Uibo. It's for them to have worked out what they did and didn't do. Obviously, looking from a distance in ‑ from Canberra, of course I want to see more programs for youth. I went to the Western Australia Banksia Hill to talk to the children in there, but also to the legal services, to the family support services about the concerns there. I'm watching every state and territory jurisdiction. It does trouble me deeply that the focus is more on putting youth in gaol than it is about the diversionary programs that we can have.
Stewart brash: Can I just read something which the Member for Gwoja, Chansey Paech, told The Guardian newspaper this week. He was talking about the new laws coming in through the CLP Government. He called the laws "a contemporary system of racial control." Do you agree with that statement he's made about the changes?
Minister McCarthy: Well, this is quite a huge step for the Northern Territory to start going backwards when there was a sense it was going forwards with regards to finding other avenues of juvenile diversionary programs. Obviously, the Shadow Attorney‑General now, is seeing this in a different light.
Stewart brash: Do you see it in that light as well?
Minister McCarthy: Well, I'll be watching very closely because one of the things we're doing at the federal level is establishing the First Nations Commissioner for Children and Young People specifically to look at exactly that and the high rates of young people going into juvenile facilities but also the high rates of out‑of‑home care, Stewart.
Stewart brash: A few questions. Peter's asked a question, "Minister, welfare money should not be available to purchase any alcohol. It's the root of our problems. Your thoughts?" I suppose they're saying that at the moment we have 50 per cent quarantining of welfare?
Minister McCarthy: That's right.
Stewart brash: I think Peter is saying 100 per cent. Is that ‑ why don't we go down that road? If we want to stop grog, why not do that?
Minister McCarthy: Well, if there's a review underway, I think you can put that submission through to the review. It's important that residents of Alice Springs have that opportunity, and clearly that's what's being opened up now by this current government.
Stewart brash: One listener is saying, "At 6am there are mobs of kids and young men walking the streets down Gregory Terrace. Where are all the community patrols? Where are these supports?" because they saw nothing. Where are they? Because you talk about going with the community patrols, I suppose the question is, we still have kids on the streets of Alice Springs, it's heading towards summer, what is going to be different this summer?
Minister McCarthy: Well, I certainly wasn't out with the patrols at 6am, and that would be a question for the patrols to answer, Stewart. But there is ‑ and if I can say to your listeners, we are committed to preparing for the summer holidays. I mean, that's what this week has been about in visiting the organisations to ensuring that. And I'm conscious of the fact that there can be a further spike, if you like, but I'll certainly check with the patrollers on behalf of your caller.
Stewart brash: Community patrollers, $2.5 million between Tang and Lhere Artepe. What's the breakdown?
Minister McCarthy: Well, it's not just Tang and Lhere Artepe in terms of community patrols. There are a number of community patrols across Central Australia as well. So, we will be able to provide that breakdown as soon as ‑ as soon as I can.
Stewart brash: Okay. And with that in mind, I suppose the other question I had is about the boarding schools. $18 million. Only $6.3, I think it was $6.5 to Yipirinya, they wanted $12 million for their facility. They say they're dealing with the most at‑risk kids. Why didn't they get 12 rather than the six?
Minister McCarthy: Sure. There was a review done, your listeners may recall earlier in the year in terms of schools and the education system across Central Australia but also in relation to boarding, and in the review, there was a highlight of the particular areas that needed to be focused on; for example, the conditions at Yirara. So, the decisions were made in relation to what the requests were specifically from each school, and it wasn't just those three, Stewart. There were quite a number of applicants who did put in, and so going through the open process for tender, it was an open contract, it's in terms of applications, and the National Indigenous Australians Agency determined it based on that review.
Stewart brash: If they need 12 million and there is a need, we're told, for this facility by Yipirinya, where will they find the extra six?
Minister McCarthy: Well, that would be up to Yipirinya. I mean, this is really a first step. I do understand that they are looking at the NAIF as well and other areas and they will have a lot of support to do that given they've received this amount of money now.
Stewart brash: Peter mentioned welfare quarantining. Now, before the last election, now Labor went to the last election saying they would get rid of the Basics Card. There'll be no welfare quarantining in the Northern Territory. You failed to do that. Is that because you realised that actually welfare quarantining has an advantage?
Minister McCarthy: Well, we certainly did do it in terms of the Cashless Debit Card.
Stewart brash: You made the promises, I remember Marion Scrymgour made the promise that the Basics Card will be done away with, there would be no income quarantining. That was the promise. It's still in place. Is that because you realised there is a benefit?
Minister McCarthy: Well, the Basics Card was different to the Cashless Debit Card.
Stewart brash: No, no, I know that.
Minister McCarthy: And we focused on the Cashless Debit Card, Stewart, in terms of not wanting to see that come in here when we already had the Basics Card. So, I'm not sure if there's a bit of confusion around that.
Stewart brash: No, I'm pretty sure ‑ I think every time I've asked Labor about this, I think the confusion might be on your side not mine because there was a promise to get rid of the Basics Card. There's been a review at least of that?
Minister McCarthy: Well, let me check on that because I've certainly been consistent in the fact that the Basics Card was not going to be removed. It was the Cashless Debit Card that we would not have here in the Northern Territory.
Stewart brash: Okay, we'll have difference of opinion on that.
Minister McCarthy: Okay.
Stewart brash: Can we go to the point of, when you and I last spoke you said you were looking for common ground ‑
Minister McCarthy: Yes.
Stewart brash: ‑ with the Shadow Minister.
Minister McCarthy: Yes.
Stewart brash: - Senator Price.
Minister McCarthy: Yes.
Stewart brash: What common ground have you found with the Senator with the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians?
Minister McCarthy: Well, I've certainly been reaching out to her in regards to Closing the Gap and this is where I've reached out to all politicians of all persuasions after the referendum and since coming into this portfolio, in the just over two months. Closing the Gap and the National Agreement is where I'm asking for the bipartisanship and I'm still hoping for that conversation ‑
Stewart brash: Are you seeing that?
Minister McCarthy: ‑ with Senator Price.
Stewart brash: Are you seeing that at the moment? Have you seen any common ground on any issue so far?
Minister McCarthy: No, not yet.
Stewart brash: There's still time before the election. We've run out of time, Minister, but thank you so much for joining us.
Minister McCarthy: Thank you.
