Minister for Indigenous Australians
GREG JENNETT, HOST: Anthony Albanese has wrapped up what for him was a four day visit to Western Australia today. Cabinet Ministers started leaving yesterday, among them Indigenous Australians Minister Malarndirri McCarthy. We caught up with her from Darwin.
Malarndirri McCarthy, welcome back once again to Afternoon Briefing. Now, youth crime, justice and detention looks inevitably like it's going to be a strong area of attention for you as you settle into your new role. Can we go to Western Australia, where you've just paid a visit earlier this week to the troubled Banksia Hill Juvenile Detention Centre. Of course, for those not aware, the WA youth justice system has recorded its second juvenile death in custody of an Indigenous person in less than a year. Obviously, there'll be a coronial inquest, but do you have confidence that that process and the policies of the Cook Government are going to fix what ails the youth detention system in that state?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Well, Greg, I certainly did spend time in Western Australia. Just got back here to Larrakia country in Darwin not long ago. While I was in Perth, I had the opportunity not only to visit Banksia and speak to the staff and some of the youth in the centre, I also spoke to First Nations leaders who are involved with Banksia, but also those on the outside, say with the Aboriginal Legal Service in Perth and many others who work in the child youth space. There is a lot of concern, Greg, around the way that Banksia is obviously operated. That concern came through in the inquest into Mr Dodds. Clearly there needs to be an inquest now in this most unfortunate second tragic incident. I was certainly heartened by the First Nations leadership that I met with who can see what needs to be done. And I know that if they are very much at the table and at the forefront in terms of work in Western Australia and with the state government, they will make a very big difference. But at this point in time, there's still a great deal of work to do.
JENNETT: Ok, but do you see a role for some sort of overarching national monitoring of this situation? I ask that because I see that you told the National Indigenous Times, quote, 'I did want to have a look at our corrections areas across the country'. And you went on, I won't read that back to you, but what have you got in mind?
McCARTHY: Well, when I had the role of Assistant Minister in Indigenous Health, I was actually looking at the correction centres across the country in terms of the healthcare facility in each of those areas. For example, here in the Northern Territory, we have Don Dale. I visited Don Dale because I wanted to see what the Aboriginal medical service was able to do here, with Danila Dilba, to work with our First Nations youth, in particular. In Alice Springs, we have Congress working in the Alice Springs Correctional Centre. In Canberra, Winnunga, the Aboriginal medical service there, works in the local prison there. This is an important step, Greg, in ensuring that particularly First Nations people who have high chronic disease, all sorts of underlying health conditions, when they enter these facilities, they do need to be monitored and cared for. And this is one thing that I'm noticing coming up in different inquests that take place across the country, like in Melbourne, for example, in recent tragic incidents there, as well as in Western Australia.
JENNETT: Ok, so you are keeping an eye on it as a Minister, from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but is there something that you're contemplating that would be more of a standing watchdog over each of those?
McCARTHY: Well, I know that under the health portfolio, Mark Butler is certainly looking at what can be done in that health sector space of our corrections across the country. We want to close the gap in terms of every target, in particular, the health concerns. So, if we have First Nations people entering these facilities with already underlying health conditions, we know through experience and through evidence that the Aboriginal community health sector across the country is making a difference and inroads. So, we need to see them more involved in the corrections areas.
JENNETT: Alright, can I take you to where you are then, Malarndirri? You're back in your hometown, you're in the Northern Territory. There's been a change of government there. Again, just for our audience's benefit, the Finocchiaro Government comes in promising a law and order crackdown, lowering the age of criminal responsibility from twelve to ten, tightening bail laws for certain offences, mandatory minimum sentences for others. Now, this could well mean a higher rate of youth incarceration. Is there a red line though, for you as a federal Minister, do you recognise the Finocchiaro Government's mandate for all of those things, or are there measures that you would not tolerate if it drastically bumped up youth incarceration rates?
McCARTHY: It worries me greatly, Greg, that the Northern Territory new government is considering going to the age of ten. You know, I look at my own children who are nine and ten, and the thought of any parent, thinking that their child could end up, as a result of these laws, in custody in these areas, is quite deeply concerning. It's also a reality that when you look at conventions around the world, especially with the UN Convention on the Child, incarcerating kids is not the way to go. So, naturally, I will obviously be urging the new Chief Minister to be very - and I'll be very clear - that I don't think this is the right step to go. She will obviously say it's a mandate that she's been given by the people of the Northern Territory. I'm sure that mandate comes in many forms, but I do believe that this particular policy is not the way to go.
JENNETT: Ok. Because you are not without power or legal influence here, it being a Territory government after all. I wonder about something like the reintroduction of spit hoods. If you saw that coming down the track, would you do something? Pull a federal lever to stop it?
McCARTHY: Look, we saw the 4 Corners here many years ago in terms of when the Adam Giles Government were in power, the previous CLP Government, and we saw then the absolute trauma and distress that that caused to youth at the time and youth who are still now young adults trying to come through from that moment of deep trauma. I would seriously want to speak with the Chief Minister and whoever the new Indigenous Affairs Minister is in the Northern Territory to absolutely be very careful about going down this path.
JENNETT: Alright, we'll keep across that, maybe subsequent to those discussions, when you have them. Joining the dots, though, across all the jurisdictions here, and I guess I'm focusing on Queensland, the Northern Territory and WA, which are all promising legal crackdowns, including for Indigenous kids. Do you consider it now a given that youth incarceration rates nationally are going to go up?
McCARTHY: Well, what I see as a given is that youth across the country are being demonised, Greg. That for some reason, I believe we are such a great country, how is it that we cannot solve the problems of our youth? Why is it that we have such a fear of them? Why is it that we do not see them in good homes with opportunities for education, that our only alternative is to look to custodial sentences? And I think that's the deeper challenge for our country.
JENNETT: Are you on the same page as your colleague Marion Scrymgour, who was quick out of the blocks after the devastating loss for the ALP in the Northern Territory election? She put her finger on crime and youth crime as something where Labor hadn't heeded messages. It doesn't sound like you're exactly on the same page there?
McCARTHY: Well, no, I'm talking about the fact that across the country we seem to focus on youth as a problem, when we need to look at them in the positive. We can deal with these issues. And what Marion Scrymgour says is that Labor in the Northern Territory has to have a deep reflection of the reasons why people voted the way they did. And I'm certain that we are going to do that in the coming weeks and months.
JENNETT: Alright, again, I won't pull that apart with you here today. Malarndirri McCarthy, one final one. National Cabinet will meet on Friday where it will consider the response collectively to the Rapid Review on domestic and family violence. Number one priority identified in that review was Indigenous women and children. What does that workflow represent for you coming out of National Cabinet?
McCARTHY: Well, I'm looking forward to the Prime Minister meeting with the state Premiers and Chief Ministers this Friday. I do think that the work that we need to do around family and domestic violence is of such an urgent nature that in terms of the areas that I have responsibility for, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services across the country, need to be supported. The Family Violence Prevention Legal Services need to be supported, and I'm certainly hopeful that we can do that as a result of National Cabinet on Friday.
JENNETT: Alright. So, much on your plate, way too much for us to fully explore with you today, Malarndirri. But you know you'll be back very soon. You're always invited. We look forward to it.
McCARTHY: Thank you, Greg.
