CHENG LEI, HOST: Joining me on set is Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong. And you welcomed me back to Australia, so it's such a privilege to be welcoming you onto the show.
PENNY WONG, FOREIGN MINISTER: It's such a privilege to be sitting here with you. And it made me very happy to say here that you were in Adelaide so I could actually talk to you in person.
CHENG: Yeah, on your home turf.
FOREIGN MINISTER: That's right.
CHENG: So, let's start by talking about the ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Of course, a lot of difficulties ahead with fractious Israeli politics and uncertain Palestinian governance. Your thoughts?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, first, we welcome the ceasefire deal. You know we, along with the international community, have been calling for a ceasefire for a long time and we've joined that call. We're very pleased that President Biden and the incoming President Trump and those that work with them have enabled this announcement. I think throughout the world, and certainly also in Australia where we have seen what this war has meant, people are very welcoming of this ceasefire, and we would say we urge all parties to make sure they respect the terms of the ceasefire and they implement it. But you quite rightly say it's only beginning and there's a lot more that does need to be done.
CHENG: And we've just seen intensification of airstrikes in Gaza.
FOREIGN MINISTER: Yes and what we want to see is the momentum from this ceasefire, you know, mean something for the longer term peace in the region and certainly the agenda that President - the incoming president - President Trump has demonstrated previously in terms of normalisation, has a real capacity to contribute to the international community building long-term peace in the Middle East, and that's what we all want.
CHENG: So, in Australia, the response has been twofold. We've had Jewish groups calling on the government to remain vigilant on antisemitism, and we've also had Palestinian advocacy groups say that, you know, there's still a lot of pain and bloodshed going on in the area and that perhaps they should be supporting a one-state solution, even. Your thoughts on these?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Goodness me, there's a lot in that question. Look, I suppose what I'd say first to you is this has been a really difficult conflict for Australia. It's been a really difficult conflict for - not just for those in the region, for the many people who have lost their lives, tens of thousands of people - but people around the world. And, you know, unfortunately, also here in Australia, we've had very different views about this conflict. I think this is a really important opportunity for us to take the temperature down. And, you know, political leaders have a role in that. Mr Dutton has a role in that. So does Mr Bandt. We don't want this conflict brought here. We are going to have different views, but how we talk about those views, I think, you know -
CHENG: Not in absolute terms.
FOREIGN MINISTER: Exactly, exactly. You know, you've written about this in different contexts as well. That sort of absolutism doesn't help. What I would say is to be able to hold on to what matters to us and who we are. And the antisemitism that we've seen; now, that's an attack that not only on the Jewish community -
CHENG: It's on Australia.
FOREIGN MINISTER: It's attacking Australia. I mean, you and I understand what it is to live in this multicultural society, and we understand the values that have to be held onto in order to continue ensuring the society is strong. So, I think we really have to take the opportunity to turn the temperature down. I'd really encourage Mr Dutton to be constructive, and Mr Bandt too. We don't want the conflict brought here. This is an opportunity for us all to work towards peace.
CHENG: And are you looking forward to going to Donald Trump's inauguration?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Very much. Obviously, it's not often in your life you get invited to a presidential inauguration, so I'm really honoured to attend but it's on behalf of our country and, you know, that's an even greater honour.
CHENG: But some in the Labor Party have made disparaging remarks about Donald Trump in the past. Is there regret about being so candid in the past?
FOREIGN MINISTER: You know, I'd make two points - one is, I think everyone's focus should be on how do we ensure we have a strong and productive relationship with the Trump administration, that the US is our most important strategic partner. Second, you know, I know some of those on the other side of politics like to, you know, make issues about things because they think it's in their political interest. I think the most important thing is that we have a strong and productive relationship with the incoming administration. That's what matters to Australia.
CHENG: We just heard the farewell address from President Biden warning the US of a gradually forming oligarchy. Are you concerned about that and its impact on geopolitics and how we deal with the US?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Look, I'll leave the domestic US politics to the US politicians and to the American commentary. It's not for the Foreign Minister of Australia to engage in that. What I would say is, you know, we should be confident in who we are. We should be confident in our capacity to advocate for our interests with the US. That's what this government will do, and we'll do it in a calm, considered and professional way.
CHENG: And what are our interests? Trade, China, and Taiwan, and all these things, and our role in the Pacific?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, peace, stability and prosperity. That's fundamentally at the highest level what we want, isn't it? I mean, Australia wants to work for peace. We understand that involves both deterrence but also reassurance. We understand that involves engagement as well as drawing a line when we disagree. I mean, this is the way Australia's approached, certainly our relationship with China on trade. Australia's got a long history of advocating for more open trading arrangements. We're a trading country. A lot of jobs in Australia depend on trade. And we do, actually, the US has a trade surplus with Australia, so that's a trading relationship where the US benefits. We obviously benefit in many ways from the relationship.
So, these are the sorts of things we will continue to advocate with the US and obviously one of the key strategic objectives is AUKUS and making sure that that partnership is strong and secure. We welcome recent comments by members of the incoming administration in support of AUKUS.
CHENG: Now we are all very concerned about the whereabouts and the welfare of Oscar Jenkins, the Melbourne man who is - we don't know what's happened to him. Have you had verification from the Russian ambassador and the Kremlin?
FOREIGN MINISTER: We are talking about obviously a war zone here, a conflict zone. So, obviously it is very difficult for us to verify facts. I know a lot has been reported. We're not in a position to have verified - we have not been able to verify the facts associated with Mr Jenkins' whereabouts.
CHENG: So, the Russian ambassador, couldn't provide help?
FOREIGN MINISTER: We have reached out, we've spoken very clearly to the Russian ambassador and we've also made the same representations in Moscow about our expectations and the obligations Russia has under international law. We've also reached out to the Ukrainians and I have had contact with and response from the Foreign Minister Sybiha, the Foreign Minister of Ukraine, where he has indicated at my, you know, that he agreed to my request that they provide all, you know, make this a high priority. I explained to him, obviously this is an Australian citizen, we are deeply concerned about him and we really want assistance from the Ukrainians to ascertain both his whereabouts and what has occurred.
CHENG: So, we are at the start of the year going to 2025. Aside from the election, what's on your to do list, foreign policy-wise?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, obviously the first priority is the one you and I have been speaking about, which is we have a new US administration. We want to -
CHENG: Are there many contingency plans because of his unpredictability?
FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, we've got a new US administration, and we want to work closely with them. We, and obviously, it's a great honour, as I said, to be invited to the inauguration. It's very - only a few Foreign Ministers have been, and so that says something, not about me, but about our relationship with the country. So, that is a great thing. So, obviously it's that, but it's the same sort of, you know, thinking that we've been clear about for the last few years. You gain stability by working in your region, working with your partners. That's what we'll keep doing.
CHENG: Thank you so much for your time today.
FOREIGN MINISTER: Great to see you. It's so good to see you back sitting in that chair.
CHENG: Yep, thank you. And my hair's grown.
FOREIGN MINISTER: It sure has.
CHENG: Thank you so much for your time today.
FOREIGN MINISTER: Good to be with you.
CHENG: Foreign Affairs Minister, Penny Wong.
