The UN's Resident and Humanitarian Coordinator in Ukraine has only been in post for three months but after talking to many civilians caught up in the fighting near the frontline - and in cities living under constant threat of deadly drone strikes - he told UN News on Friday that the "determination to survive and rebuild" is palpable everywhere.
Mattias Schmale spoke to chief of the UN News Russian unit Nargiz Shekinskaya saying that one big priority for the extensive UN aid operation which is designed the help the Ukrainian Government reach 1.8 million most in need, is to keep people warm through another bitter winter, despite losing more than half of their coal-based energy production infrastructure.
Russia is continuing to try and push its forces forward as the full-scale invasion continues: "I don't like the term, but we use it a lot and that's the resilience of Ukraine's citizens. It's remarkable how people continue to cope," he said.
He describes conversations with civilians living in fear in the southern city of Kherson, under constant shelling, where drones are clearly being directed to attack civilians and buildings far from the frontline.
"Sometimes the drones don't strike, but just follow them around, because you can hear the sound - the trauma of being followed by a drone and not knowing whether it is close."
Mr. Schmale said he can only marvel at the ability of Ukrainians to keep going "with smiles on their faces to support their own people."
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
UN News: The third winter of war is almost here. So many challenges ahead, given the energy infrastructure is under constant attacks. How does the UN help Ukrainians prepare?
Matthias Schmale: There are about 112,000 people living on so called collective sites. Our focus is on supporting these people in collective sites. A lot of what we're doing has to do with keeping people warm. So, there is assistance in the form of heating appliances, in the form of fuel, wood, coal, gas.
We planned earlier than last year and we've started delivery earlier than last year and we've already reached 26,000 people as of 30 September - in-kind and cash assistance, the stoves, the warm clothes, the fuel. Cash assistance is a dignified form of assisting because it gives people a choice over what to spend their money on. And Ukraine close to the frontline, of course, has disrupted markets but most of the country still has very much functioning markets.
UN News: Ukrainian officials report that all thermal power plants and almost all hydroelectric capacity in Ukraine is gone. What are the consequences for civilians?
Matthias Schmale: So indeed, my understanding also is that we have 60 per cent of Ukraine's own energy production capacity partially or completely destroyed. It's getting quite cold. A big priority, a big impact of the destroyed energy capacity is that people don't have access to heating. And of course, heating comes with warm water and sometimes it comes with getting water because pumping stations need to be fueled.
So very clearly the impact of the energy destruction is severe on civilians. Our colleagues in human rights, the Office of the Commissioner ( OHCHR ), recently published a report where they demonstrated that the hits on the energy sector have direct consequences for civilians. I mentioned already earlier that we are trying to assist the government in reaching 1.8 million people, so we see 1.8 million people that are particularly vulnerable. There's over 3 million internally displaced people in Ukraine. And amongst those, they are the ones that are particularly vulnerable in collective shelters.
I've traveled in my first two months here around the country quite a bit, along the frontline. And just this week, I was in the south from Odessa, Nikolaev and Kherson…It's not just rural areas and the areas along the frontline that are affected. People that live in high rise buildings are of concern in cities. We are working on seeing whether solutions can be found.
UN News: What are some other major concerns and challenges today, like healthcare or education? I know it's too much to mention everything, but still the major concerns.
Matthias Schmale: I would start actually with education, with the millions of children whose education has been interrupted. And during my travels around the country, many of education officials and our own colleagues from UNICEF and UNESCO have pointed out, that for younger children, not being in school and not having access to education is now almost six years, because of COVID.
Colleagues from across the UN system are trying to help. We're also trying to help with safe spaces in schools where they are open. And the one particularly fascinating experience for me was going to Kharkiv, where six schools are now functioning in underground metro stations - some 5,000 to 6,000 children, I think, In Kharkiv are actually in schools in underground.
There is a lot of healthcare infrastructure that was destroyed. I've forgotten my WHO colleague has mentioned the number, over a thousand health centres and hospitals that have been hit either completely or partially destroyed. So infrastructure is affected. Our colleagues also recently published a report that shows the impact of damage in the energy sector on primary health centres. It's not just individuals and families that need to have energy and water. When you take in the places where they live, but it's all also public service institutions that needs to have access to energy. So a concern is how to keep primary health care going and to help rebuild the health sector.
Then another issue I would like to mention is that this country, Ukraine, is now one of, if not the most heavily mined country in the world. And so this is a big issue. And a lot of the mining, of course, it's along the frontline.
And in agricultural production there is some fascinating work going on. Colleagues in WFP and FAO help identify places and to screen them and help farmers to get back on their feet and recover agricultural production.
When I first heard FAO and WFP are involved in demining, I thought this must be mission creep. But now I am really convinced that this is good work, that they understand what they are doing, they are already involved in terms of an immediate response to the war, which is supporting mining, but also the early recovery, helping farmers to get back into demined fields.
One final thing I want to mention is the psychological impact on our team. Kyiv, where I am currently sitting, has a fairly good defence system. So at the moment there's relatively rare direct hits and damage. But there is a huge psychological impact. There are periods where almost every night air siren warnings go off disrupting sleep. And of course, the constant worry; will rockets hit.
UN News: You've taken office just three months ago, but already you have visited many frontline towns. What is life like there and how do people manage to cope?
Matthias Schmale: I don't like the term, but we use it a lot and that's the resilience of Ukraine's citizens. It's remarkable how people continue to cope. They start rebuilding their lives. So I remember recently in Kharkiv oblast I met a woman and her family who were gone for a while and have come back. With a remarkable determination they started to rebuild their lives. That is really impressive. I've been to quite a few conflict zones around the world. And usually the sense is we have to wait and the fighting and the war is over before we seriously get into recovery and rebuilding lives and infrastructure. Whereas here in Ukraine, I am really positively impressed by the determination of citizens and the government to start repairing and rebuilding as soon as opportunities arise.
Now, of course, I think it would be a mistake if I just painted a rosy picture around resilience. I also, of course, seen some very desperate people and situations, including the lady I mentioned and her family who's come back and is rebuilding her life.
As we were talking, she was several times close to tears, describing how they survived the attacks of two years ago, how it impacted their mental health, being away from their home a year, coming back, seeing the destruction of their home. So, I'm not trying to paint a rosy picture. I'm trying to pay tribute to the people and their determination to survive and rebuild.
I was particularly concerned earlier this week when I visited Kherson in the south, which was the capital city of a region, under constant shelling. So it is in the middle of an active war zone. And there in recent weeks, the armed forces of the Russian Federation have also added drone attacks, and drone attacks, are of course, precise. And it clearly shows on the footage and in images that actually suggest that there are deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure.
People in Kherson told me that sometimes the drones don't strike, but just follow them around, because you can hear the sound. The trauma of being followed by a drone and not knowing whether it is close.
UN News: Is there any update on the humanitarian access to the Russian controlled territories? Any update that you would like to share?
Matthias Schmale: Sadly the access to Russia controlled areas is almost impossible. There's a little bit going on, but not directly. It's mainly through extremely courageous Ukrainian national partners and Ukrainian individuals.
UN News: How would you describe the overall cooperation with the Ukrainian government, including local authorities in the regions?
Matthias Schmale: I would describe it as a very healthy, pragmatic collaboration. There was, after the full-scale invasion in February 2022 a rocky period, when, I think, government was not at all - and the population partially - in my understanding, was not at all satisfied and impressed by what was offered.
But I must say at all levels, meaning district level, regional level, national levels, I have not met one person who has not recognized the incredible humanitarian action that has been delivered by the UN and its partners over the last two and a half-plus years.
I must pay tribute to my predecessor, Denise Brown, who was the Resident and Humanitarian Coordinator for almost two years and provided incredible and visionary humanitarian leadership. That has given the UN with all its components, meaning all of the agencies and programmes that are on the ground - and there are 22 - really a fantastic footprint in the country and great recognition.
The hope and expectation is that as long as the war lasts, we will continue providing humanitarian assistance. And that's becoming not so easy because we're getting less and less resources from the global community. Wherever there are opportunities for recovery and development, we have to earn our reputation.
We can't just assume because we are doing a good job on the humanitarian side, that the value added we provided, is recognized and accepted also for recovery and development.
UN News: If I may, a little bit of a personal question. Your job had taken you to so many conflict zones around the world. I can only imagine the toll of witnessing human suffering on a such large scale. Is there any recipe on how to stay focused and keep going in this kind of situation?
Matthias Schmale: That's a good question. There are two or three thoughts going through my head. One is and as you well know, we have a system of rest and relaxation and it's really needed. I thought when I first left, maybe it's a bit early after only six weeks.
But I realized as soon as I reached home how tired and exhausted I got. So I think part of staying focused and the strength to keep going with all the horrors going on, is to make sure your own wellbeing is being looked after and that's the individual's responsibility. And then I have to say what keeps me personally going in Ukraine, but also in many other places - I worked in Gaza and in Nigeria - It's always inspirational is what I mentioned earlier about what we call the resilience of people.
So as an example, I met in Kharkiv on my last visit there ten days ago two fantastic Ukrainian women working for a local organization supported by our UNFPA colleagues, one a social worker, the other a psychologist. And they described how day in, day out, they hear horrific stories of people who've been sexually assaulted.
I can only both marvel and get energy from people who despite the horror they are faced with, keep going with smiles on their faces to support their own people.
I know many of my UN and other colleagues see this determination of people who experience the worst of humanity.
